Free solar power system. Is it a scam?

John_Pierpoint

Poosmate wrote: »

Hi all.

A friend of mine had his fitted a year or so ago and got a grant (he paid about £3.5k) and I was thinking that I could afford up to £4k. However, I've been looking into it now and it appears there are no grants available, which would mean an installation cost of around £7k-£8k and that puts it out of my reach. :-(

Poo

There was a golden period in the run up to the declaration of the FiT starting last April.
The brave on the ball people who installed in the months before April then got the grant and the FiT (They were slightly gambling as the fit was forecast to be about 35 pence not 41.3 as it turned out to be)
There were also some now disgruntled people who got the grant but no subsequent increase in the much lower FiT rates for which they had signed up.

Poosmate

Thanks John, I've been thinking of remortgaging for a while now and have been looking at all the interest rates. Mine is high at 5.04%! I reckon I could stick another £8k on my mortgage and lengthen it by 5 years and be comfortable with the repayments.

My aim is to be debt free in 6 to 8 years (or sooner) and mortgage free in 10-12 years. I believe this would still be doable even adding 5 years and £8k to the mortgage as if I just added £8k to the mortgage and remortgaged to a better rate my payments would be the same as they are now! By lengthening the mortgage by 5 years it reduces the mortgage repayments and frees up more dosh to pay off the debts quicker and so be able to tackle the mortgage quicker. Plus, adding 5 years to the mortgage and lowering my payments gives me a little room for rising interest rates.

I don't think I have any other way of financing it unless Bank of Mom is open for business! lol

Sounds like a plan doesn't it?

Thanks again for your response.

Poo

Lawrence_Buckley

Thanks Andy,

I've followed this thread with interest for a while and agree with your assessment on A Shade Greener - its a good company.

I also take your point about company representation. I'll respect the rules of the forum and step out (which is a shame for me as I was looking forward to answering people's questions!).

Goodbye and kind regards,



Lawrence

noncom_2

Well that wasn't quite what I was intending.......

I'm sure there must be a way that MSE bosses can find to let company reps like Sarah and Lawrence post on here answering questions about their products without falling foul of the rules.

These systems are a fantastically large commitment, whether the end user is paying the cost up front, or entering into a long term rental agreement a la Isis or ASG. Surely it would be better to allow consumers to quiz the companies directly?

Sarah and Lawrence, I would encourage you to speak to the Forum controllers to see in what way you can continue your presence here.......

Andy

Poosmate

I agree with Noncom and I found this on the Forum Rules section:

How do I get a right of reply on what's been said about my company?
If you're from a company, have seen a post you feel is defamatory or abusive and would like the right of reply please email the Forum Team at [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL] to ask.
A member of the MSE Team will carry out checks to confirm that you are authorised to represent the company in question.
Provided you have authority to represent your company, you may either be asked to give a statement, which one of the MSE Team will post on your behalf in reply, or be given permission to post directly on the specific thread.
Where permission has been given for you to post directly on a thread, a note from the MSE Team will appear on the thread confirming this.
If someone has posted claiming to be from a company but this has not been followed by a MSE Team note confirming authorisation please report it to [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL].
There is one, single exception to this rule. If you're from a company and have a discount code you'd like to offer MoneySavers this rule is waived in the Great Want to Offer MoneySavers a Discount? Hunt. You can post your discount once only, on that thread but nowhere else on the forum and shouldn't post about your company anywhere else on the forum.



I hope that Sarah and Lawrence will both apply for permission to post, their input is both valued and informative. I know this thread is primarily about the free installations but it's still very informative for those of us who are not in areas covered by the free installation companies and are considering doing it ourselves. I've read other threads but this is the one I keep coming back to.

To Sarah and Lawrence, please apply and to MSE Forum Police please allow them to speak, we're all adults here (sometimes ) and if there's any hint of sales pitch we (the users) will be the first to flag it.

Thanks

Poo

ETA: And I forgot to say, there are loads of Utilities reps on the Utilities Board (in the Gas and Electric sub board anyway), so if they can why can't Sarah and Lawrence?

Froggitt

I agree. Free the solar two!!!

quoia

Just found this thread today - AND I'VE JUST READ EVERY POST FROM THE VERY FIRST ! Interesting

I found it having searched MSE for ISIS SOLAR having read something about this company offering free PV installations in a newspaper article yesterday.

Firstly may I add my comments about SarahLucyD - very helpful to the extreme from what I can see and almost the patience & fortitude of a saint. Not sure I'd have been as polite as she has been in responding to some of the comments, criticisms and "abuse" aimed at her throughout this thread.

I also vote that her posting rights be reinstated and she be allowed to offer help, advice and clarify any issues over her company's offer of Free PV Solar Panel systems.

ANYWAY .... A question.

I understand the issue of ONLY getting 3kWh output for a couple of hours a day on a cloudless summer's day around noon, and that it is quite unlikely that this is going to be consumed by the household itself at this time and therefore mostly is exported back to the grid.
I also follow that over the breakfast period it is likely that consumption will exceed the PV output, and this will be likely to be repeated at teatime, or at least from early/mid evening.

Much of the discussion of the efficiency & savings figures (and exactly how "little" the actual cash reductions in energy bills will really be) are based on the householder probably losing out of about 50% or more of the electricity generated due to the inability to store it or use it when it is actually available ....

.. BUT ...

... given what is said here .....

Cardew wrote: »

Has it been established that if the disc runs backwards that the meter readings actually lower, in proportion to the excess energy produced by the panels? e.g. If the panels produce 2.5kWh, and 1kWh has been used in the house over the same period, that the main supply meter will be reading 1.5kWh lower.

Or could the meter mechanism be such that it doesn't wind back. The best analogy I can think of is like a bike freewheel mechanism, I can pedal backwards as fast as I like!!

I know years ago that it was possible to 'reverse' the connections on gas meters(i.e. have the dials facing the wall) and the meter ran backwards. They apparently prevented this on newer meters.

So is the meter mechanism 'fixed wheel' or 'freewheel' to use the bike analogy!!

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

On my spinning disc meter, the numbers would go down, they wouldn't freewheel

Sadly, it has now been replaced by the digital export meter

... IF ... that's IF ... you have a DISC METER surely you "get" every last Watt of electricity generated from your panels and you ARE STORING IT !!! Aren't you ?

(For simplicity) Until noon demand equals PV output
Meter at noon reads 12345
3kW generated per hour over next 3 hours with the household consuming 1kW per hour
So that's 9kW made, 3kW used and 6kW surplus which goes backwards through the meter.
Meter at 3pm reads 12339

Haven't you STORED 6kW "in the grid" ?

(again for simplicity)
Between 3pm and 7pm demand = output so meter still reads 12339 at 7pm
and between 7pm and going to bed at 11pm you need and additional 6kW from EON or British Gas or whoever
and come 11pm your meter reads 12345

but you "HAVEN'T BOUGHT THIS" 6kW from anyone because the meter reads the same as it did at noon.
You've just retrieved what you "made" earlier !

Froggitt

I dont think you store anything, as electricity cant effectively be stored. However yes you are generating 6W in your example and "selling" it back to the power company.

So yes you are using some power that you generated earlier, BUT Im not sure if that excess power now belongs to ISIS or whoever. ie any power you generate and use is yours, but anything over and above this is theirs. Otherwise I cant see how theyre going to recoup their ten grand or whatever.

Does anyone know?

noncom_2

Yeah, there's been much debate about this in threads (possibly this one), and it's a muddy picture.

You get paid the FIT for every unit you GENERATE whether or not you use it. So that answers (I think) the previous post about how you get payback - the majority of the money from your system (if you own it yourself, rather than getting it from one of these "free" companies like ASG) will come from this generation payment. So every unit you generate will be metered and you get 41.3p per unit (if you have a domestic retrofit system up to 4kW).

You also get 3p per unit that you export to the Grid. This may be metered, or (more common at the moment) the power company may estimate that you will consume 50% yourself and pay you for the other 50%. So if you manage to use more than half the units you generate (by cooking, washing, tumble drying etc while the panels are generating most) then you're quids in, otherwise you're probably being underpaid.

You will also save money on not buying in units from the Grid at the times when your panels are providing the electricity.

The issue with the backwards spinning meter is complex, and I'm not going into it again, except to say that regardless of the fact that in one sense you are just using the Grid as a huge battery to put power into when you make it, and take it off again when you need it, the electricity companies are unlikely to see it that way and will not look kindly on a meter which runs the "wrong way". At the very least, you would then be getting paid an export fee AND not actually contributing anything to the Grid.

XRayDave

noncom wrote: »

Yeah, there's been much debate about this in threads (possibly this one), and it's a muddy picture.

You get paid the FIT for every unit you GENERATE whether or not you use it. So that answers (I think) the previous post about how you get payback - the majority of the money from your system (if you own it yourself, rather than getting it from one of these "free" companies like ASG) will come from this generation payment. So every unit you generate will be metered and you get 41.3p per unit (if you have a domestic retrofit system up to 4kW).

This is correct.

noncom wrote: »

You also get 3p per unit that you export to the Grid. This may be metered, or (more common at the moment) the power company may estimate that you will consume 50% yourself and pay you for the other 50%. So if you manage to use more than half the units you generate (by cooking, washing, tumble drying etc while the panels are generating most) then you're quids in, otherwise you're probably being underpaid.


You will also save money on not buying in units from the Grid at the times when your panels are providing the electricity.

This is also correct

noncom wrote: »

The issue with the backwards spinning meter is complex, and I'm not going into it again, except to say that regardless of the fact that in one sense you are just using the Grid as a huge battery to put power into when you make it, and take it off again when you need it, the electricity companies are unlikely to see it that way and will not look kindly on a meter which runs the "wrong way". At the very least, you would then be getting paid an export fee AND not actually contributing anything to the Grid.

To clarify...

You only get paid the 3p/kWh export fee IF you have an export meter (or ASG/ISIS get this payment if the panels belong to them?).

IF you have an export meter, this replaces any previous electricity meter (I'm talking about single meter installations here, not Economy 7/White meter or whatever it is called these days) so you will no longer have a "spinning disc" meter and consequently will not have the meter running backwards AND be paid the additional 3p/kWh export fee.

So, you either keep your original meter and (occasionally) have the delight in seeing it run backwards or have the meter replaced by an export meter and get paid an ADDITIONAL 3p/kWh for every kWh that is fed back to the grid.

Either way, export meter or not, you will still get the 41.3p/kWh FIT payment if you paid for the panels & had them installed - otherwise this payment goes to the company - such as A Shade Greener or ISIS Solar - and you don't see a penny (you just get to use the free electricity).

Hope this has helped.

XRayDave