Biggest financial scam in history

samclam

chucky wrote: »

i know, i know, debt is the new wealth...

debt is nothing new and it is not wealth

money is debt, and the debt creators are wealthy and out of control

it's not really a laughing matter

chucky

samclam wrote: »

debt is nothing new and it is not wealth

money is debt, and the debt creators are wealthy and out of control

wake up

i'm awake, wide awake. David Attenbrough's Life isn't great this week.

i was laughing at nearlynew. he's used the 'Debt is not wealth" soundbite quite a few times now... :rolleyes:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.html?searchid=69475981
"Inflation is theft" is another good sound bite...

Thrugelmir

samclam wrote: »

I realize banks play a vital role for us. What I suggest is that the "Investment Banking" side of our High St banks should be separated off & allowed to Fail, while good old fashioned less risky High Street Banking be kept going.

I think you need to understand the banking sector a little better. It's the "High Street Banking" that has gone awry in the UK.

Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Dunfermline Building Society, Alliance and Leicester, HBOS were all high street operations.

Where did Barclays make its money in the 6 months to June? By trading out a segment of Lehmans it bought from the administrator......

I agree investment banking needs to be split off. However whats left isn't very attractive to investors.

Thrugelmir

samclam wrote: »

That's one of the main reasons I started this thread. Because people aren't talking about the fundamental issues and the Fractional Banking System is definitely one of them.

The concept that liquidity (credit) will be drawn out of the system by the tighter regulatory requirements on the banks starting next June. Is not a concept that average Joe Public will grasp. As its not something which is tangibly visible. Until credit rationing bites will the full effects become apparent. ( By rationing I mean a limited availability of funds on a month to month basis, not no credit at all).

purch

I'm informing people about Fractional Reserve Banking (which is completely undeniable) because I want people to wise up

Why did you think you would need to ?. Just because you only stumbled upon the facts recently, doesn't mean that anyone with an IQ in double figures wouldn't have realised/known how the Banking system works.

You agreed with my main points but then deleted your post.

Err No.

The post is still there.

Point 1. No we shouldn't be, but writing them off would have it's own perils

Point 2. Agree

Point 3. I disagree 100% :eek:

Point 4. Agree, but what is a better alternative than the current QE program?

Point 5. Agree, but would any other system leave us better off ?

P.S. You don't get 'News' from a Blog. A Blog is an opinion, nothing more, nothing less !!!

Half the profits go to the Queen has got to be one of silliest things I've ever read on this forum :eek:.......and that's certainly saying something :rotfl:

fedupfreda

samclam wrote: »

When I say the Queen I'm referring to half the BOE profits going to HM (Her Majesty's) Treasury - that's from the BOE site. When you see HM it really does mean a financial link to the Royal Family. You can't say HM without that.

Errm, actually, no, I believe the Royal Family gave up their rights to income from crown assets in return for the civil list payment - quite some considerable time ago - the Queen is just the figurehead who supposedly has the power of royal veto against any act of law, but if I remember my history correctly, the last Royal that actually did that was Queen Anne... Whenever you see the letters 'HM' it actually means our illustrious leaders....;)

I agree the system is rotten to the core, however. What makes me mad is I do believe there were rules at one time regarding the conduct of financial institutions and the risks they were allowed to take. Successive governments have allowed these rules to be bent (or deliberately relaxed them) whilst also ensuring the financial regulators were asleep on the job (or were so busy arguing amongst themselves who actually bore the responsibility that no-one actually did).

The BoE supposedly has overall control. The BoE is run by the Government. We have established that the Govt effectively does not take orders from the Queen - so the smoking gun belongs in the PM's hands.

samclam

Hands up I got carried away with the Queen stuff. I withdraw that idea although I think the Royals should not receive taxes from us.

I amended my comment on China "telling" it's businesses they don't have to honor US derivatives contracts but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens. We should do the same thing. And although I quoted a blog, that wasn't where I originally heard that idea.

Yep mr Purch, you didn't delete your post, my error.

So I've confessed my sins, can we move on to real issues. I stand by everything else I've said.

I definitely think it is important to understand the Fractional Reserve Banking system, it really is fundamental. Seems crazy that a site dedicated to saving money isn't interested in how money is created and controlled! And how flawed the current system is. You ain't gonna fix nothin if you don't tackle that.

I know it's our High St banks & Building Soc's that are in trouble but isn't that mainly down to the toxic mortgage products that they were buying from the US? I call that Investment Banking activity and say it should be separated away from High St banking and allowed to sink or swim without any money from us. I still think it's insane / criminal that that debt burden has been passed on to us!

Aren't you guys interested in securing your financial future? The current level of government debt is something like £50k or more per household. Are you really alright with that, or don't you pay any taxes?

I still say the whole thing is a scam for all the reasons I've said before, call it mismanagement or inadequate regulation if you prefer but either way if we do nothing it's not going away. The government and the central banks aren't making the problems go away, they're making the fundamentals worse. And what happens in the US is highly relevant to what goes over here, it is still the world's reserve currency.

samclam

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The concept that liquidity (credit) will be drawn out of the system by the tighter regulatory requirements on the banks starting next June. Is not a concept that average Joe Public will grasp. As its not something which is tangibly visible. Until credit rationing bites will the full effects become apparent. ( By rationing I mean a limited availability of funds on a month to month basis, not no credit at all).

The liquidity contraction is a scary point, but I say have a go and try to educate Joe Public. I think we should when there's so much at stake. How can people stand up for themselves if they don't know what they are up against?

Why would a benevolent central bank give to it's own with one hand and take from Joe Public with the other?

If I was robbing your house but said politely, "oh no, I'm helping you. I know what's best" would that be ok?

Thrugelmir

samclam wrote: »

I definitely think it is important to understand the Fractional Reserve Banking system, it really is fundamental. Seems crazy that a site dedicated to saving money isn't interested in how money is created and controlled! And how flawed the current system is. You ain't gonna fix nothin if you don't tackle that.

I know it's our High St banks & Building Soc's that are in trouble but isn't that mainly down to the toxic mortgage products that they were buying from the US? I call that Investment Banking activity and say it should be separated away from High St banking and allowed to sink or swim without any money from us. I still think it's insane / criminal that that debt burden has been passed on to us!

Aren't you guys interested in securing your financial future? The current level of government debt is something like £50k or more per household. Are you really alright with that, or don't you pay any taxes?

The BOE for a fact, and undoubtably all finance minsters in the G20 are aware of the issues surrounding FR banking. It is being addressed in the longer term. Shorter term you can't just put the brakes on the banking system in the middle of a recession.. The trouble is stopping the clever bankers from creating ways in the future of circumnavigating the rules. As Mortgage Securitisation proved. Yes, it started in the USA but the UK bankers exploited the system as well.

High street banks and building societies don't invest in US mortgage securities. They lend money. :rolleyes:

HBOS's problems are of its own making.

Why do you believe all our problems are imported from the USA?

No point in worrying about what you can't change. Yes Government debt is high, but a great opportunity to change for a better future.

samclam

purch wrote: »

Just because you only stumbled upon the facts recently, doesn't mean that anyone with an IQ in double figures wouldn't have realised/known how the Banking system works.

Ok, not that it's a new concept to me anyway, explain to me in your own words what Fractional Reserve Banking is and how it works? And if you feel that it is a fair system?