We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Biggest financial scam in history
samclam
Posts: 53 Forumite
Not sure where best to post this. Looks like UK Plc now desperately needs to become Debt Free so on behalf of the country I'll post this here.
Isn't anyone else out there wising up to the biggest financial scam we've ever seen? I mean the Bank Bailouts! Have we all gone to sleep? Why aren't we hounding Parliament and the Financial centres in London? We are being ripped off for everything we've got and haven't even got yet!
Who in their right mind would reward & refinance the very same immoral, irresponsible, criminals who have caused this recession / depression with their gambling activities on sub-prime mortgages and derivatives? They even have the audacity to give themselves bonuses with our money saying if they don't their expertise will go else-where, well please take your incompetence elsewhere. And while you're at it lets thoroughly audit your activities and see you in court first. Then we'll repossess what you've stolen from the country.
Where's the logic in giving Billions of Pounds to the Banks because mortgages are defaulting when it would have been far cheaper and more beneficial to simply pay off those mortgages directly. At least that way those home owners would have spent any other money they had in the real economy and not caused rising unemployment. Any investment activities of the High St banks should have been separated off and allowed to fall flat on their faces with share holders dealing with the consequences not innocent tax payers.
Instead we saw a dramatic fall in liquidity in the economy as the Banks refused to lend to small businesses and individuals. This sharp fall in the availability of credit is the direct cause of our current recession and this is far more attributable to the Banks than it is to bad mortgages. Isn't it insane that our money is lent to the banks without our permission, then they refuse to lend it back to us! Go figger that one out?
I know the argument that we own the banks or at least large parts of them but basically that means nothing because we don't benefit in any way from this. They even have the cheek to put up interest rates on over drafts and loans (not mortgages so far) when the rate at which they can borrow from the Bank of England is at an all time low. I know to begin with they were too scared to even lend to each other but the Bank of England could have forced them to.
The Bank of England may be demanding they hold more cash in reserve which is one reason why credit has contracted but if that is the case then how the hell does the BOE think it is stimulating the economy if it is giving with one hand and taking with another. In this scenario ordinary people do not benefit and Banks are left with the feeling that they can carry on playing the Casino's (derivatives, currency markets, bonds, etc) which only benefits themselves and not the real world.
Why do we let the Bank of England & the Government rack up unbelievable amounts of debt (£200 billion) on our behalf without our consent? How long is that going to take us pay back (10 years, 50 years)? Do you realise the BOE is going to charge us interest on this debt even though they have the mysterious privilege of creating new money out of thin air? Who is the Bank of England anyway, and who are their share holders? Why are they non-elected, yet hold so much power? Why do we even need them when we have the treasury? And the industry they come from has little credibility now.
In the USA the Federal Reserve is a privately owned business that openly acts like it is above the Law. The American Constitution outlaws such an institution yet no one questions it's existence or real agenda. The Fed will not even disclose to US citizens where it has been spending the Trillions of Dollars they have been printing. And many ex-employees of Goldman Sachs are now working in US Government and sending over all that bailout money to their old buddies back at Goldman Sachs, surprise, surprise. The argument that the US Gov now owns them is erroneous as they likewise won't lend to to regular people or benefit the real economy.
The argument that their Banks have to pay the money back is also erroneous because if one country lends you money at almost zero interest (basically free money) then all you have to do is invest in another country that pays higher interest (called the carry trade) to make a fortune for yourself. This will weaken the $ (as can be seen) or the £ in our case, and drive up the price of our imports. For both us and the US this isn't good because we import so much and export so little, so this destabilizes our economies further. It also makes the sale of our Government bonds less interesting to foreigners hence the need for Quantitative Easing. India would now rather own Gold than US Dollars.
The bottom line is the only people to benefit from Gordon Brown's rubbish attempt to save the world is a few at the Top of the Banking Food Chain, while their selfish activities destroy the rest of the world. And the reason this has gotten so far out of hand is because the banks buy off politicians. Anyone wonder why Gordon Brown is always harping on about New World this & that and Global Government? Did anyone know that Tony Blair gets £2 Million / year for being on the Board of JP Morgan but doesn't even have to go into the office! Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan were in the top 10 sponsors of Obama's campaign, the most expensive campaign in history. What a PR stunt that was, make him look like a Saint and all he does is continue Bush's policies and appoint half of Wall St to Washington so they can carve up the country, he's a total puppet fraud. He can't even provide a US birth certificate to prove he even has a legal right to be president.
Unless we kick up a real fuss and address the heart of this con we will all end up a lot poorer and in a more chaotic unhappy world. There's no point switching Labour / Conservative every 4 years when you just get the same old false promises from both sides; those guys are actors and don't care about us. They listen to big business and just do what they tell them. The current political system can not work for us. We need a genuine referendum, proportional system where the government's sole purpose is to protect our individual human rights and not police, control, spy on & dictate to us, or send us on bogus never ending wars. Government should never have this much power, they work for us not the other way round.
The reason we are not directly told this in the main stream media is because they too are owned by the same big business's that have usurped our political system.
Isn't anyone else out there wising up to the biggest financial scam we've ever seen? I mean the Bank Bailouts! Have we all gone to sleep? Why aren't we hounding Parliament and the Financial centres in London? We are being ripped off for everything we've got and haven't even got yet!
Who in their right mind would reward & refinance the very same immoral, irresponsible, criminals who have caused this recession / depression with their gambling activities on sub-prime mortgages and derivatives? They even have the audacity to give themselves bonuses with our money saying if they don't their expertise will go else-where, well please take your incompetence elsewhere. And while you're at it lets thoroughly audit your activities and see you in court first. Then we'll repossess what you've stolen from the country.
Where's the logic in giving Billions of Pounds to the Banks because mortgages are defaulting when it would have been far cheaper and more beneficial to simply pay off those mortgages directly. At least that way those home owners would have spent any other money they had in the real economy and not caused rising unemployment. Any investment activities of the High St banks should have been separated off and allowed to fall flat on their faces with share holders dealing with the consequences not innocent tax payers.
Instead we saw a dramatic fall in liquidity in the economy as the Banks refused to lend to small businesses and individuals. This sharp fall in the availability of credit is the direct cause of our current recession and this is far more attributable to the Banks than it is to bad mortgages. Isn't it insane that our money is lent to the banks without our permission, then they refuse to lend it back to us! Go figger that one out?
I know the argument that we own the banks or at least large parts of them but basically that means nothing because we don't benefit in any way from this. They even have the cheek to put up interest rates on over drafts and loans (not mortgages so far) when the rate at which they can borrow from the Bank of England is at an all time low. I know to begin with they were too scared to even lend to each other but the Bank of England could have forced them to.
The Bank of England may be demanding they hold more cash in reserve which is one reason why credit has contracted but if that is the case then how the hell does the BOE think it is stimulating the economy if it is giving with one hand and taking with another. In this scenario ordinary people do not benefit and Banks are left with the feeling that they can carry on playing the Casino's (derivatives, currency markets, bonds, etc) which only benefits themselves and not the real world.
Why do we let the Bank of England & the Government rack up unbelievable amounts of debt (£200 billion) on our behalf without our consent? How long is that going to take us pay back (10 years, 50 years)? Do you realise the BOE is going to charge us interest on this debt even though they have the mysterious privilege of creating new money out of thin air? Who is the Bank of England anyway, and who are their share holders? Why are they non-elected, yet hold so much power? Why do we even need them when we have the treasury? And the industry they come from has little credibility now.
In the USA the Federal Reserve is a privately owned business that openly acts like it is above the Law. The American Constitution outlaws such an institution yet no one questions it's existence or real agenda. The Fed will not even disclose to US citizens where it has been spending the Trillions of Dollars they have been printing. And many ex-employees of Goldman Sachs are now working in US Government and sending over all that bailout money to their old buddies back at Goldman Sachs, surprise, surprise. The argument that the US Gov now owns them is erroneous as they likewise won't lend to to regular people or benefit the real economy.
The argument that their Banks have to pay the money back is also erroneous because if one country lends you money at almost zero interest (basically free money) then all you have to do is invest in another country that pays higher interest (called the carry trade) to make a fortune for yourself. This will weaken the $ (as can be seen) or the £ in our case, and drive up the price of our imports. For both us and the US this isn't good because we import so much and export so little, so this destabilizes our economies further. It also makes the sale of our Government bonds less interesting to foreigners hence the need for Quantitative Easing. India would now rather own Gold than US Dollars.
The bottom line is the only people to benefit from Gordon Brown's rubbish attempt to save the world is a few at the Top of the Banking Food Chain, while their selfish activities destroy the rest of the world. And the reason this has gotten so far out of hand is because the banks buy off politicians. Anyone wonder why Gordon Brown is always harping on about New World this & that and Global Government? Did anyone know that Tony Blair gets £2 Million / year for being on the Board of JP Morgan but doesn't even have to go into the office! Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan were in the top 10 sponsors of Obama's campaign, the most expensive campaign in history. What a PR stunt that was, make him look like a Saint and all he does is continue Bush's policies and appoint half of Wall St to Washington so they can carve up the country, he's a total puppet fraud. He can't even provide a US birth certificate to prove he even has a legal right to be president.
Unless we kick up a real fuss and address the heart of this con we will all end up a lot poorer and in a more chaotic unhappy world. There's no point switching Labour / Conservative every 4 years when you just get the same old false promises from both sides; those guys are actors and don't care about us. They listen to big business and just do what they tell them. The current political system can not work for us. We need a genuine referendum, proportional system where the government's sole purpose is to protect our individual human rights and not police, control, spy on & dictate to us, or send us on bogus never ending wars. Government should never have this much power, they work for us not the other way round.
The reason we are not directly told this in the main stream media is because they too are owned by the same big business's that have usurped our political system.
0
Comments
-
I certainly agree the money would have been better spend on helping people with their mortgages and I agree the banks should not give themselves bonuses out of the bail out - what a cheek! The banks were such a pain over these bank charges, shame they are getting the last laugh though!No you're not a vegetarian if you eat any animal or fish, so do not insult genuine veggies by calling yourself one! :mad:
Thanks to everyone who posts competitions. You are the stars of the board :T:j:T0 -
I can't support the popular view that banks such as RBS and Lloyds TSB should be allowed to go under. Banks are vital for the movement of money around the country/world. Without banks the world would grind to a halt.
Major clearing banks such as RBS are particularly key because they supply a large percentage of liquidity into the payments market. This payment liquidity requires large collateral deposits with the Bank of England, and it is the quality of the collateral that is in question now, e.g. worthless sub-prime mortgage derivatives or prime-quality Treasury bills etc.
So the point I'm making is that "bailing out" these banks is preferable to the alternative. I completely agree about the "men at the top" and would like to see Fred Goodwin prosecuted. As a Nat West/RBS employee of 35 years and shareholder I feel completely betrayed by him and his board and want them to feel the full force of criminal law.
Linda0 -
Tldr
.........“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
I certainly agree the money would have been better spend on helping people with their mortgages and I agree the banks should not give themselves bonuses out of the bail out - what a cheek! The banks were such a pain over these bank charges, shame they are getting the last laugh though!
the downside of not bailing them out is - an extra 200,000 people made directly unemployed, the ripple effect across other sectors due to the obvious issues will make this figure at least 5 times greater on top of we have now.
if you believe you would rather see this instead of bail outs - you have your answer if they are a good thing or a bad thing.0 -
There's very definitely something going on at the very top level.
I don't mean with Clown. I mean at the level of Murdoch, Soros, Quatari's and the Bilderberg group members. See my recent post comparing the current looking-glass world to 1933 Weimar.
A recent example has been BNP on the TV. Then the confirmation that NuLabour had used infettered immigration to break-up society. Then Alan Johnson being given the line that NuLabour has been 'maladriot' on immigration. What ex-postie says 'maladriot'? Today we have confirmation of treasonable actions by NuLabour in directing anyone to be let in, and covering-up the evidence.
Too many conincidences I'd say, along with the trickling out of the confirmation that the bailout will cost £1.5 TRILLION. That's on top of the £1.5 TRILLION wasted in a decade of a borrow'n'bungle when Clown was in No.10
Strange days indeed.
I hope you've got gold bullion readily on hand. Good luck everyone.0 -
Doing "God's work".
Meet Mr. goldman Sachs.................
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6907681.ece"The problem with quotes on the internet is that you never know whether they are genuine or not" -
Albert Einstein0 -
I realize banks play a vital role for us. What I suggest is that the "Investment Banking" side of our High St banks should be separated off & allowed to Fail, while good old fashioned less risky High Street Banking be kept going.
What we have here is a few bad mortgages being used as a pretext for passing on all the Banks liabilities to the Public! This is absolutely shameful and unacceptable! I don't have any pity for unemployed hedge fund workers or investment bankers. When you have 9 people gambling on the activities of one person doing real work that has to be unsustainable.
If you let the investment banksters fail that wipes out the threat of $700 Trillion in derivatives globally and puts an end to their crooked careers and the rest of the world can get on as normal. That's how capitalism & free markets are supposed to work!
It is insane to keep bailing them out. Why should we pay for their mistakes! If we carry on, the levels of tax needed to pay for this fiasco will cripple us for generations. If we can't pay the taxes our currency will collapse, so we'll be too poor to buy imports. Typically any country that turns on the printing presses this much suffers hyper-inflation at some point and a collapse of their currency. I don't know if it will get this bad but we are increasing the odds every day.
Next the government will have the hypocrisy to cut public spending because they have gotten us so much more in debt! Let's see, we have to stimulate the economy by giving money to the banksters so they can carry on gambling but let's make life harder for the tax payer because we've given all their money away & don't want to ask the Bank of England to create any more 'out of thin air' for them.
We need to stop lying down and taking this. Stop being fooled by those boring voices on Television who never tell the whole story, we are being had over on a scale unimaginable!0 -
I certainly agree the money would have been better spend on helping people with their mortgages and I agree the banks should not give themselves bonuses out of the bail out - what a cheek! The banks were such a pain over these bank charges, shame they are getting the last laugh though!
I disagree. A mortgage is an arrangement between an individual and a financial institution. I dont have one.why should my tax $$ be used to underwrite those who took out mortgages and cant afford them? If they cant afford them,they need to sell,downsize,restructure or get repossessed.Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..0 -
stuff
You quote Goldman Sachs a lot, but I don't seem to recall them getting any bailouts anyway.
As to the rest of your arguments - do you have any idea how many small/medium businesses would fail if those big banks were left to fail? Tens of thousands.
If RBS and Lloyds had gone under, we'd be talking 4 or maybe 5 million unemployed.0 -
You quote Goldman Sachs a lot, but I don't seem to recall them getting any bailouts anyway.
As to the rest of your arguments - do you have any idea how many small/medium businesses would fail if those big banks were left to fail? Tens of thousands.
If RBS and Lloyds had gone under, we'd be talking 4 or maybe 5 million unemployed.
Goldmans were required to take part in the US bailout.
There is also an argument that they received beneficial treatment as a result of their counterparties being bailed out.
I'm not sure whether or not I subscribe to the latter argument.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.2K Spending & Discounts
- 245.1K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.5K Life & Family
- 258.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards