Unenforceability & Template Letters II

fermi

If they have been passed to DCAs then it's likely that the accounts have been defaulted anyway.

Have they checked their credit files?

bankkiller

i will ask them to check the credit history again.

what happens if they've been defaulted then?
could they still ask for proof of CCA, and also get default removed?

!!!!!!!s, they really screw up peoples credit history these people!

never-in-doubt

impetus wrote: »

Is the signed application form a valid agreement?

Hiya

Nope - it is not!

Send the following letter to them matey (highlighted in red). Just click the link, then find that letter title (should be the middle one) and amend to suit, and send it off! It should be ok to send as-is in all honesty....

16. Various CCA Query Letter 'Variations'
Variations of CCA Queries, i.e.
- CCA Dispute - Illegible Copy Document Supplied;
- CCA Dispute - Terms & Conditions Supplied;
- CCA Dispute - Copy Document Supplied;

never-in-doubt

bankkiller wrote: »

i will ask them to check the credit history again.

what happens if they've been defaulted then?
could they still ask for proof of CCA, and also get default removed?

!!!!!!!s, they really screw up peoples credit history these people!

No - a default will remain for 6 years since the date it was added. The only other option is if they have not paid for 6 years, it will come off then as well.

So, in a nutshell, the default will be removed whenever the sooner happens: 6 years from date of last payment (statute barred) or 6 years from date of default.

The only other option would be if it was incorrectly added, i.e. not their debt!

Make sense?

rolleypolleypud

Hi

I've been following this thread for a while and i'm just wondering if someone could give me some advice?

I currently have a default on my credit file from HSBC for a £1600 overdraft.

I opened this account way before 2007 when I was around 12 (13 years ago) just as a very basic account which I would pay birthday, Christmas and my paper round money into. As I got older and started working full time my salary was also paid into this account and HSBC upgraded me from a basic account to a full current account with switch card, cheque book etc.

When we started struggling a few years ago the account fell overdrawn and all the charges etc that went with this were added on. I came to a point were my wages weren't even bringing the account back into the black and this was getting worse each month. In the end I moved accounts so I could stop the enormous charges being added.

In April I recieved a final demand from HSBC for full repayment within 14 days. I called them and went though what I could afford to pay each month but they refused this and said they would only accept a minimum of £100 which they know I can not afford as my other account is also with them and I am only just getting myself sorted out and keeping my head above water with that one.

The account is now with Metropolitan collects but what I want to ask is can I go down this route with an overdraft and start asking for my cca ect? I can not remember ever signing anything when they upgrade my account. From what I can remember when my cash card needed replacing as it was reaching its valid till date I was just sent a switch card automatically?

Should I try asking for my cca or does this not really apply to overdrafts?

Sorry to waffle but if someone has any advice it would be a big help to me.

Kudox

Hi wondered if anyone could advise,
I requested CCA from Marbles last april, they responded by sending current T&C's and admitting they could not locate "Historical T&C's" but in there opinion the account was fully enforceable.
I had another letter just last week stating basically the same thing, but then yesterday had a letter from 1st credit demanding full payment etc etc.
No default has been issued or letter of assignment so my question is do I ignore 1st credit or send them the "account in dispute" (or other) letter?
Thanks in advance, am following this thread with interest.

never-in-doubt

Kudox wrote: »

Hi wondered if anyone could advise,
I requested CCA from Marbles last april, they responded by sending current T&C's and admitting they could not locate "Historical T&C's" but in there opinion the account was fully enforceable.
I had another letter just last week stating basically the same thing, but then yesterday had a letter from 1st credit demanding full payment etc etc.
No default has been issued or letter of assignment so my question is do I ignore 1st credit or send them the "account in dispute" (or other) letter?
Thanks in advance, am following this thread with interest.

Hiya

Ok you have two issues here, you need to send a copy of each letter below to each company (so you send the letter to marbles with a copy of the letter to 1st Credit and vice versa, you send 1st Credit their letter with a copy of your letter to the OC.

Make sense? lol

Keep us posted - good luck!

Issue 1:
Send the following letter to Marbles (edit as necessary):

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account

I note that you have replied to my CCA Request by sending a copy of Terms & Conditions and not a True Copy of the alleged Consumer Credit Agreement, in line with my formal request. As such, I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a 'true copy' of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

Section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of Document Regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be mentioned, which are;

Section 2(2) (a)
A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b)
A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document, the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. It does, however, state that 'all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented'.

In either case, please confirm that you have, in your possession, a credit agreement that is in all ways fully compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended, and the subsequent regulations made there under. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are in possession of such a document, but are unable to supply me with a true copy of it, please outline your reasons why you are unable to supply it to me in your reply.

Furthermore, I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

I look forward to your response within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Sign digitally

Issue 2:
Send the following letter to 1st Credit (edit as necessary):

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed. I would like to point out that I am in the process of dealing with this matter with the Original Creditor, Marbles.

In light of my not receiving any Notice of Assignment paperwork I will only deal with the Original Creditor until such time you follow proper process and arrange for lawful Assignment documents to be sent to me.

Incidentally, I am disputing the validity of the debt with the Original Creditor and until such time as this matter is resolved, I must remind you that partaking in any collection activity is a serious breach and will not be tolerated.

The ‘Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance’ states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. They also state that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods.

Similarly, disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment, amounts to physical and psychological harassment.

In light of the above, I formally request that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question. A copy of my most recent letter to the original Creditor is attached for your perusal.

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed, within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

never-in-doubt

rolleypolleypud wrote: »

Hi

I've been following this thread for a while and i'm just wondering if someone could give me some advice?

You could but to be fair i'd be writing a different letter stipulating the above points, i.e. you never signed anything to upgrade the account nor did you ever receive any paperwork for the overdraft etc.... threaten them with the FOS unless they come to an amicable agreement.....

Regards to the DCA they have sold the debt to, you can avoid contact with them - send a similar letter to the one I posted above. In fact, send this to the DCA:

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed. I would like to point out that I am in the process of dealing with this matter with the Original Creditor, HSBC, and the account is and remains in dispute.

Secondly, in light of my not receiving any Notice of Assignment paperwork I will only deal with the Original Creditor until such time you follow proper process and arrange for lawful Assignment documents to be sent to me.

Incidentally, I am disputing the validity of the debt with the Original Creditor and until such time as this matter is resolved, I must remind you that disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment, amounts to physical and psychological harassment.

The ‘Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance’ states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. They also state that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods.

In light of the above, I formally request that no further contact be made concerning the above accounts unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question. A copy of my most recent letter to the original Creditor is attached for your perusal.

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed, within the next 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

Kudox

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya

Ok you have two issues here, you need to send a copy of each letter below to each company (so you send the letter to marbles with a copy of the letter to 1st Credit and vice versa, you send 1st Credit their letter with a copy of your letter to the OC.

Make sense? lol

Keep us posted - good luck!

Issue 1:
Send the following letter to Marbles (edit as necessary):



Issue 2:
Send the following letter to 1st Credit (edit as necessary):

Thanks N-I-D, I'm just wondering if it makes a difference that I was still continuing to pay Marbles as part of my DMP with CCCS, (maybe stupidly) I have now taken over the DMP myself and am intending to stop payments to Marbles as of this month.

never-in-doubt

Kudox wrote: »

Thanks N-I-D, I'm just wondering if it makes a difference that I was still continuing to pay Marbles as part of my DMP with CCCS, (maybe stupidly) I have now taken over the DMP myself and am intending to stop payments to Marbles as of this month.

The only difference is that statute barred will be 6 years from last payment, but the default will go after 6 years from default date (when did they default you by the way?)....

But no, it makes no difference. However they will never comply as long as you're paying! so you need to stop paying, like yesterday!