Parking ticket in 'Free for 30 mins' bay - update

biscuitdunker

So, this happened back in August when I was working in Croydon. I parked up in a bay and went to pay for a ticket. I read the tariffs displayed on the machine and it said quite clearly "Tariff for 30 mins or less: FREE", it also said that 30 mins - 1 hour was only 10p, which I remember thinking was incredibly cheap, but since I was only going to be popping into one shop, I didn't think I needed to pay. I wish I had paid 10p for a ticket now.

I was in the shop for less than 10 mins, returned to my car to find a parking ticket. I was so annoyed! I marched up to the machine and read the tariffs again, and realised that beneath all the tariffs, right at the bottom, in smaller font, it said even if you're parking for free, you must take a ticket. So, I had made a mistake, but I felt like I had been a bit misled and didn't deserve to pay a fine for it since I hadn't overstayed the free parking allocation. It's not as if the council has lost out on revenue because I didn't take a free ticket.

I made an informal appeal on the Croydon Council website and waited for a response. I had explained exactly the circumstances. I also explained that I have never seen this system before, and all the 'Free for 30 mins' bays in my borough do not actually require you to take a ticket.

A few weeks later I got a letter saying that my appeal had been rejected. I was disappointed, but would have accepted it, had the council not totally disregarded everything I said in my appeal. They did not acknowledge that I was entitled to park for free and had simply not taken a free ticket. They continued to maintain that I was in a Pay and Display bay, and had failed to PAY. The exact wording: a ticket should have been PURCHASED and clearly displayed in the vehicle. There are no exceptions under these circumstances". This really riled me, it was as if they hadn't read my appeal at all. Why did I even go to the bother of appealing?

So, now I have a Notice to Owner, and intend to make an official appeal, and when that's rejected, I intend to go to the Parking Appeals Tribunal.

I'm just wondering whether anyone else has had this happen to them, and whether you have any tips for me when I appeal? Any advice is gratefully received!

Coblcris

Signage must be clear. Take photographs of the machine and the small writing that was missed.

biscuitdunker

Coblcris wrote: »

Signage must be clear. Take photographs of the machine and the small writing that was missed.

Thanks, yes I keep meaning to! It is over an hour's drive away so I was hoping the council would be reasonable and wouldn't require me to take photos, but I will do so now. I am also going to look for any CCTV cameras as I may request the footage if there are any.

Coblcris

"I was hoping the council would be reasonable"

Welcome to the reality of council parking enforcement.

Neil_B

biscuitdunker wrote: »

I parked up in a bay

On or off-street?

A lot of Croydon on-street bays have non-compliant markings.

biscuitdunker

Neil_B wrote: »

On or off-street?

A lot of Croydon on-street bays have non-compliant markings.

It was on-street, I can't remember what the markings were like though.

Coupon-mad

biscuitdunker wrote: »

It was on-street, I can't remember what the markings were like though.

When you go to take a photo of the ticket machine wording (asap), also make sure you get:

- a photo of the bay you seem to recall you were in,
- and photos of the termination lines at both ends of the marked bay,
- and a photo of the signs at the bay.

then post them on here along with a scan of the PCN, washed of any ID details (front and back scan of ALL wording, even blurb).

With all that info posted back on here (see the 'how to post images' sticky thread) I would hope someone can then help you with a successful formal appeal.

biscuitdunker

Hello again! Well, I spent the whole day driving to and from Croydon, and I'm honestly thinking that perhaps I'm wasting my time. The wording on the machine looks a lot more clear now, and I'm not sure if it's just because I'm recalling it wrong, or because they have changed the signage since August. It definitely looks as if they have put a newer sticker on top of the tariffs and instructions on the machine, but there's not really any way I can prove or find out if they've changed it.

Also, while I was there, a couple of people almost made the same mistake as me, and a local shop keeper told me that he's always telling people to make sure they take a ticket because people keep getting tickets for the same thing. There's also posters in a few of the shop windows saying "NO TO PAY & DISPLAY", so obviously not a popular scheme.

Anyway, here are the pics I took, I'll be uploading scans of the ticket and letters later. Let me know if you think this whole thing is hopeless, I'm beginning to think I should pay the £60 and have done with it. I really can't face it going up to £90 if I lose the appeal.

I can't post links because apparently I'm a new user. Here are some partial links which I hope work once c&p into a browser!

Pics of the bay markings:

i33.tinypic.com/2eumxds.jpg

i36.tinypic.com/2wrdhjb.jpg

The Pay & Display sign:

i38.tinypic.com/2a9uzxy.jpg

The wording on the machine:

i38.tinypic.com/9sw4zb.jpg

The legal blurb on the machine:

i36.tinypic.com/2zf910z.jpg

And a notice I saw attached to a lamp post next to the machine which seems to be announcing the start of Pay & Display. According to this, the scheme only started a few weeks before I got the ticket. The notice says it started on July 20th 2009, and I got my ticket on August 19th. Probably irrelevant, just thought it was typical of me to be one of the inaugural idiots who didn't take a free ticket. :rolleyes:

i37.tinypic.com/v8q2k9.jpg

peter_the_piper

Unfortunately the most important pics were missing (I think) those were of the lines/lines at the ends, the terminations referred to earlier. It is these which determine if a bay is legal or not.
If you have these please post them as its not possible to show a bay is wrong without them.

biscuitdunker

Oh I might just top myself now..I didn't know the termination lines were different from the other lines. I don't know if I can face another 3 hour drive to Coulsdon.

biscuitdunker

I've been looking online for pictures of illegal parking bays, and all the ones I've managed to find so far have been illegal because they do not have separate marks to designate individual parking bays. Since my bay did, is it unlikely that the bay markings are incorrect? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I just want to find out how futile another trip to Coulsdon would be.