Are Tips illegal???

Anihilator

rumbaba wrote: »

Sounds to me that you're just piqued because traffic wardens don't get tips. You are the traffic warden aren't you? Or is that some other member on here who gets all his facts wrong too?

By the way, if a customer wants to tip a waiter - that's THEIR business. So you think it's acceptable for the restaurant to steal it do you?!

You sound like a very mean and bitter man for some reason.

No I am not a traffic warden and I dont need to worry about NMW as I already earn above it by a good margin.

Yes I do think its acceptable for a restuarant to retain the tips and distribute them as they see fit. I am still waiting for your proof otherwise that its illegal. Would you say its acceptable for staff in Tescos to walk around and ask customers for cash and then carry it on the premises?

And Why am I bitter and mean? Because I don't think staff who work in restaurants should be entitled to a higher NMW than many far more important jobs (i.e care staff etc) for simply showing up?

rumbaba

Anihilator wrote: »

In that case surely it would be up to the employer to distribute based on performance.

As you said its a matter of opinion that one. I just find it quite unusual that waiters think by simply carrying a few drinks to a table they should automatically be entitled to a tip over their NMW.

Anywere I have worked bonuses are very much performance related and discretionary.

What rubbish you spout!

I bet if you were a waiter you'd take great humbridge at the restaurant keeping the tips a customer gave to YOU personally! A tip is between a customer and service provider; it isn't up to the waiter's boss whether or not he can keep it!

He's already proved his worth by the mere fact the customer wanted to leave him a tip - it's none of the business of the restaurant's manager or owner!

People can't just take tips (or gifts) off an employee and keep them for themselves! What planet do you live on, ANUL?

Anihilator

rumbaba wrote: »

What rubbish you spout!

I bet if you were a waiter you'd take great humbridge at the restaurant keeping the tips a customer gave to YOU personally! A tip is between a customer and service provider; it isn't up to the waiter's boss whether or not he can keep it!

He's already proved his worth by the mere fact the customer wanted to leave him a tip - it's none of the business of the restaurant's manager or owner!

People can't just take tips (or gifts) off an employee and keep them for themselves! What planet do you live on, ANUL?

Actually I don't agree with any of this post.

Here is a simple request as I have made previously. Please supply me with PROOF of this law and its application.

Until such a time as you do I am going to suggest you are very misguided and misreading what you think is a law.

Are you going to meet this request or is it simply going to be more abuse.

For the record I am thinking it is you who is the NMW waiter who thinks by simply showing up you should get more than NMW. Its customary to tip in restaurants and as such I don't for a second think most waiting staff deserve them.

rumbaba

Anihilator wrote: »

Well supply the links then.

I am interested too see this. I still think your reading it out of context or in isolation. I very much doubt that HMRC are dictating restaurants have to pay over NMW and no one else.

My God you're dense!

No-one is saying HMRC are saying restaurants should pay over the NMW! All they're saying is that restaurants cannot steal the waiters' tips. And that's what they've effectively been doing.

Tips, service charge, call it what you like......is not there to pay towards MNW or overheads of the restaurant. It is JUST TIPS! Gratuities? Heard of them, eh?

Do you tip when you dine out? Oh, hang on. Just remembered. You must be on NMW too (you think £6.60 ph is good money) so you obviously can't afford to eat out!

Anihilator

rumbaba wrote: »

My God you're dense!

No-one is saying HMRC are saying restaurants should pay over the NMW! All they're saying is that restaurants cannot steal the waiters' tips. And that's what they've effectively been doing.

Tips, service charge, call it what you like......is not there to pay towards MNW or overheads of the restaurant. It is JUST TIPS! Gratuities? Heard of them, eh?

Do you tip when you dine out? Oh, hang on. Just remembered. You must be on NMW too (you think £6.60 ph is good money) so you obviously can't afford to eat out!

No I am not dense. You are yet to provide this proof you claim to have.

Please do so.

Also go down your local police station and report these thefts. Tell me the reaction.

And generally speaking I tend to not tip mainly because most staff are ignorant, rude and lazy and seem to think 10% should be given automatically.

Finally unless you want to give me your proof to reconsider where it exactly does it stop a restuarant charging service or whatver you want to call it as profit? I must have missed that bit.

rumbaba

Anihilator wrote: »

No I am not a traffic warden and I dont need to worry about NMW as I already earn above it by a good margin.

Yes I do think its acceptable for a restuarant to retain the tips and distribute them as they see fit. I am still waiting for your proof otherwise that its illegal. Would you say its acceptable for staff in Tescos to walk around and ask customers for cash and then carry it on the premises?

And Why am I bitter and mean? Because I don't think staff who work in restaurants should be entitled to a higher NMW than many far more important jobs (i.e care staff etc) for simply showing up?

How warped you are to think it's acceptable for a restaurant to TAKE a waiter's personal tips and use them as they see fit! So it's OK for a restaurant to take a waiter's tips off him at the end of the night and put them in theor own pocket is it???????? And if the Inland Revenue demanded that waiter pay tax on those tips at a later date, and the waiter said that he didn't actually mange to keep them - the manager 'stole' them off him - it would be reasonable to expect the waiter to still pay tax on them? Even though they were taken off him????

It's the waiter's responsibility to prove he DIDN'T keep the tips, so he would end up paying tax on monies he never had!

You're just on a weird planet!

As you don't have the ability to find the link I'll put it up for you, but I'm not sure you'll understand it. You'll try and say it's wrong!:rotfl:

rumbaba

Anihilator wrote: »

No I am not dense. You are yet to provide this proof you claim to have.

Please do so.

Also go down your local police station and report these thefts. Tell me the reaction.

And generally speaking I tend to not tip mainly because most staff are ignorant, rude and lazy and seem to think 10% should be given automatically.

Finally unless you want to give me your proof to reconsider where it exactly does it stop a restuarant charging service or whatver you want to call it as profit? I must have missed that bit.

I don't want you to reconsider anything - who cares what YOU think?!

Incidentally, your last sentence doesn't make any sense!

I dare say you're a mean miserable man who is rude and obnoxious, and that's why waiters treat you the same way.

It's extremely odious of you to call most waiters lazy, ignorant and rude. Do you think you're better than them? Let me tell you that my daughter who is now a Consultant Gynaecologist worked as a waitress whilst she was studying, and she was never rude, lazy or ignorant!

The reason waiters probably dislike you is that you have an obnoxious attitude and they don't want to serve you. Or maybe you feel intimidated in certain restaurants when you don't understand the menu or wine list and you start behaving arrogantly to hide your feeling of inferiority.

Anihilator

Sorry I must have missed the link.

10 minutes after promising it and a torrent of abuse. A Cynic might think you reread your proof or just made it up and realised you were talking bull.

Any

Guys calm down!!!

Yes, waiting staff cannot expect to get tips just for showing up. For that they get NMW.

However, if people choose to give them money, it is THEIR money and it is between the giver and the receiver. The same as is giving presents.

I suppose that where the money belongs in case of service charges already calculated on the bill is because "theoreticaly" the customer does not have a choice who are they giving it too. It is kind of a "tax" billed by the business. No idea why it is called service charge. It's false advertisement IMO (come here, steak for £5!! when it is actualy £5.50)
(I say theoreticaly, because some people know how to fight it and some not-they just accept it).

zzzLazyDaisy

rumbaba wrote: »

As you don't have the ability to find the link I'll put it up for you, but I'm not sure you'll understand it. You'll try and say it's wrong!:rotfl:

I have to say I don't agree with your analysis, but I don't claim to be a tax expert (although I have some understanding of this issue through my role as an employment lawyer). I suspect that there is a misunderstanding, but I'd be happy to have a look at it. If you could post a link to the section you are referring to, that would be very helpful. Thank you.

Daisy