Are Tips illegal???

PeterJDavies

Pickled Pink,

In response to your points:

1. Some do, some don't. Those who keep the money for themselves could well be said to be misleading customers. In the majority of businesses though the service charge won't all go to the waiter - typically they will get 50/60% with the rest being shared by the receptionist, barman, chefs, sommeliers, kitchen porters and so on. If you think that's fair then pay the service charge, if not remove it and tip the waiter instead (but IMHO the chef who cooked your food to perfection deserves a slice of your generosity just as much as the waiter who served it). But as a customer you should have the information to make an informed choice.

2. Yes it's perfectly legal. You cannot be forced in law to pay any service charge, no matter whether it is described as discretionary or not. But bear in mind if you tip cash the waiter is likely to keep it all for themselves meaning if you wanted other staff to get a share then it won't happen.

3. Many newspapers have already "named and shamed" businesses engaging in practices that they believe morally dubious. Failing that, try review sites - just be sure to get your facts right and the whole story - I know of more than restaurant which has received damages for (false) adverse publicity on this point.. Or good old word of mouth!!

Fly_Baby

PeterJDavies wrote: »

If you think that's fair then pay the service charge, if not remove it and tip the waiter instead (but IMHO the chef who cooked your food to perfection deserves a slice of your generosity just as much as the waiter who served it). But as a customer you should have the information to make an informed choice!

I honestly don't think that the chef deserves a slice of my generosity. It is his job to cook food to perfection. And I don't think that the food was delicious just because he loves me very much - he doesn't even see me - but probably because he is a good professional who gets paid accordingly.

Tipping the waiter is one thing - they are dealing with customers directly and they are tending to their needs - but it is a bit too much to expect of the customer to subsidise the whole staff list of the restaurant. That's their employer's job.

pickledpink

Thank you for your response, Peter.

The problem is, though, it appears that most restaurants are not sharing the sevice charge between their staff; the management are keeping it for themselves. In the majority of restaurants the staff (including waiters) only receive their basic pay each month - they do not receive extra money on top from the service charge. The only time they receive extra on top of their minimal wage is when they receive a cash tip.

So how would the public know which restaurants do share the service charge amongst the staff? I wouldn't know. So to err on the side of caution it must be better to deduct the service charge and tip in cash, directly to the waiter for the service he has provided you. If you're feeling generous, and want to tip each member of staff in the restaurant, then of course you could always do that, I suppose. But one of the main reasons we, as a nation, tip waiting staff is that they are notoriously badly paid, and rely on tips to bring their wage up to a level where they can live above the poverty line. I understand that chefs earn much, much more than waiters; some head chefs earn as much as £50K a year. So I wouldn't feel obliged to give them money in addition to what is a very good wage.

As for the kitchen porters and commis chefs, well, we don't actually getserved by them, and the whole point of a service charge (to most people) is to leave it for the person who actually serves you. If we want to tip everyone who has been instrumental in our dining experience why not tip the driver who delivers the meat to the restaurant? I mean, where does one stop?!

And if, as you say, 50% of the service charge goes towards paying the porters, barmen etc.that sounds as though the restaurants are using it to make their wages up. I thought that was now illegal. I'd be interested to know how many kitchen porters receive a large sum of money on top of their salary each month from the proceeds of the service charge!

I've never heard of any restaurant staff receiving extra bonuse on top of their wages each month; but maybe someone on here can tell us if they do - and let us know which restaurant practices this?

I think the whole issue is very murky indeed, with lots of grey areas.

I also think service charge should be abolished, and customers should be left to tip at their discretion. The money is not going to who it is intended for - and that is wrong.

Jakg

As far as I was aware, the HMRC ruling just says an employer cannot offer £3ph, but then say they will top it up with tips - they must pay NMW as a basic rate. it doesn't say where the tips must go.

Sparhawke

breadlinebetty wrote: »

new law which came into effect on 1st October states that the management cannot keep the service charge money to top up the minimum wage - neither can they use it to pay overheads of any sort! They HAVE to give it back to the staff!

Here is a link to an article written by AA Gill in the Sunday Times just a few weeks back.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6860080.ece

Personally, I NEVER pay the service charge in restaurants. I tell them to remove it.

I pay the waiter or waitress directly, and how much I pay is dependant on how good the waiter service has been.

Waiting staff earn very poor money and work long unsociable hours, and as they are the ones who serve me my food, and are the most instrumental in making my experience a pleasant one, then my tip is meant for that waiter and no-one else!

My tip is for THE SERVICE - not the food - which I already pay for in the bill! The chef will be on FAR more money than any of the waiting staff are, and so he should not get a share of that tip. As for the other staff (porters/cleaners etc) they are not working with the general public and cannot expect tips. That would be like going to the hairdressers and after tipping the girl who washes your hair, giving them a few pound on top for the cleaners who come in at night and mop the floor!

I advise everyone to tell the manager to remove the service charge from the bill, and to tip the waiter/waitress in cash.

Wow, who ressurected this old topic? lol

Actually when I worked at restaurants years ago I found it to be beneficial to me to hand a little over to everyone else around the kitchen and greeters and such, I was the only one who did this and was always out of the kitchen first, got the best regular tippers to my covers and got help with cleaning stuff away...it may seem like just £20 so I might as well keep it, but if I hadnt I would never have doubled my weekly wage just in gratuities alone...people behind the scenes are always helpful, if you give them a reason to be

Sparhawke

Anihilator wrote: »

In that case surely it would be up to the employer to distribute based on performance.

As you said its a matter of opinion that one. I just find it quite unusual that waiters think by simply carrying a few drinks to a table they should automatically be entitled to a tip over their NMW.

Anywere I have worked bonuses are very much performance related and discretionary.

It is not simply "carrying" a few drinks over to a table, at least if you are in any way good at your job. There will always be a huge amount of work you never get to see, such as the hour or two of clean-up and changing table cloths, polishing cutlery and other sundry often overlooked jobs after everyone has left...it all adds up.

pickledpink

Sparhawke wrote: »

Wow, who ressurected this old topic? lol

Actually when I worked at restaurants years ago I found it to be beneficial to me to hand a little over to everyone else around the kitchen and greeters and such, I was the only one who did this and was always out of the kitchen first, got the best regular tippers to my covers and got help with cleaning stuff away...it may seem like just £20 so I might as well keep it, but if I hadnt I would never have doubled my weekly wage just in gratuities alone...people behind the scenes are always helpful, if you give them a reason to be

Yes, but you were able to do that because you actually GOT a tip. These days most waiting staff don't see the tips meant for them, because the restaurant keep them!

Sparhawke

pickledpink wrote: »

So how would the public know which restaurants do share the service charge amongst the staff?

Ask them directly...most waiters and waitresses I knew would feel embarrassed about taking tips, it is something distinctly un-English for some reason, so many simply leave a small discrete jar or tin on the table but they would tell you if asked directly

It is like adult stuff, we all know it happens, it must do otherwise no one would be here yet no one ever talks about it.

Sparhawke

pickledpink wrote: »

Yes, but you were able to do that because you actually GOT a tip. These days most waiting staff don't see the tips meant for them, because the restaurant keep them!

No restaurant is going to take my tips at all and call them a service charge, why should I work my backside off for hours and come in an hour early, leave an hour later so my covers are set out perfectly to simply hand over tips that should be going in my pocket and the pockets of those that help me to people who are lazy, arrogant, bad tempered and perpetually hung over?

The reason most waiters don't see their tips is because most people have been suckered into thinking the word "tip" is an evil word...and no one ever talks about it anymore.

So for the opening poster again, simply take the situation head on...you know tips happen, customers do so simply make it easier for them to give you a little.

pickledpink

Sparhawke wrote: »

It is not simply "carrying" a few drinks over to a table, at least if you are in any way good at your job. There will always be a huge amount of work you never get to see, such as the hour or two of clean-up and changing table cloths, polishing cutlery and other sundry often overlooked jobs after everyone has left...it all adds up.

It seems that some people assume waiting staff just carry a tray a drinks and a couple of plates to a table - how wrong they are! As you rightly say, you'll spend a good hour or two after all the customers have gone cleaning the tables, carrying the chairs in from outside etc, polishing cutlery, folding napkins........the list goes on.

But more importantly, what many people fail to realise is that it's the waiter or waitress who can make or break a meal. Wonderful food can have the edge taken off it if you have a disinterested or bad waiter. Likewise, mediocre food can be forgiven if the waiter is attentive, likeable and looks after you well.

There are a lot of people out there not used to dining out, or who only go out on very special occasions, and part of the experience for them, besides the lovely food they wouldn't normally cook at home, is being made to feel a bit special. Having an attentive waiter who is friendly, charming and helpful is of the utmost importance for an enjoyable dining experience. And that's why good waiters get good tips.