Will Gordon Brown send UK economy over the edge?

Rochdale_Pioneers

amcluesent wrote: »

Any talk of 'stimulus' with even more debt after Clown's wrecking of England is risible.

His lamentable record is one of massive increases in public spending, public debt and off balance-sheet liabilities during years when there was real economic growth.

Which would be true if it wasn't false. Did we borrow money post 2001? Yes we did. Was it massive? No. Was debt higher in 2008 than it was in 1997? No.

If fact you have to look very hard to find any years in British history when debt to GDP was lower than it was even in 2008. A few years in the 80s at the height of the Lawson boom (quickly reversed by the Lawson bust) but thats pretty much it.

We've just seen a massive growth in share prices as the city have a party recovering from the trough of the crash. People don't tend to invest in countries that are nearly bust, or have massive unsustainable debt, and yet trillions have flowed into Britain. As well as France, Germany, Italy, America Japan - countries who all have much higher debt than we do even now.

So why is it that the only people talking about the financial apocalyse are frothers on this board and Conservative economic spokesmen? The city isn't.

Generali

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Which would be true if it wasn't false. Did we borrow money post 2001? Yes we did. Was it massive? No. Was debt higher in 2008 than it was in 1997? No.

That's disingenuous at best or a lie at worst. At the end of the last full financial year, 2008-9, the UK ran a debt of £101,300,000,000 or 7.1% of GDP which took it's total borrowings to over 55% of GDP. That is according to the UK Government's own figures of course (link). At the end of September 2009, it was 59% of GDP - a deterioration of nearly a full %age point of GDP per month!

Who cares what France or Italy's debt positions are? If they're running the same course as the UK they'll end up in the same position. Unless it'll make you feel better that despite the UK being bankrupted by her liabilities (and let us not forget that National Debt is just the start of that), at least the French are even more bankrupt.

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

Who cares what France or Italy's debt positions are? If they're running the same course as the UK they'll end up in the same position. Unless it'll make you feel better that despite the UK being bankrupted by her liabilities (and let us not forget that National Debt is just the start of that), at least the French are even more bankrupt.

Absolutely right.

I'm tired of UK being compared to lowest common denominator countries. Do we think China will settle for being a moderately successful economic country? Heck no. They want to lead the league table. We should be no different in aspiration.

CLAPTON

to add perspective





and

Old_Slaphead

Afriend wrote: »

To be replaced by another bunch of liars..
Labour can't govern, Tories favour the rich, we are all screwed..

I don't think that the rich have really had a tough time under Labour have they ????

kennyboy66_2

vivatifosi wrote: »

Don't know if anyone else picked up from a story from Fri/Sat (it only made the Mail), but Darling has admitted that the "environmental tax" that he has levied on airlines from today is actually nothing of the sort, and is aimed at paying for the bailed out banks. Nothing like kicking an industry when its down:

As Alistair Darling acknowledged in Newcastle this week, the airline industry and travellers are being penalised to help pay for the enormous cost of rescuing rotten banks. 'We need to raise money to pay for some of things we have done ... Northern Rock has cost a lot of money.'

.

To be honest, I don't have much of a problem with taxes that try and change some behaviour.

Taxes that encourage a bit less flying, driving, drinking, smoking, eating fast food etc, are miles better than jacking up employers national insurance or corporation tax for example.

Taxes will be going up regardless.

The_White_Horse

i told everyone in 1997 that this whole "labour" thing would end in disaster.

it gives me enormous pleasure to say that I was right. Obviously I knew I was right, but now everyone knows I was right.

All the lefties are good for is arguing their "intellectually enlighted" viewpoints in the coffee shops, wearing their cardigans and sandals, whilst eating lentils. What they are not good for is running a real country with real problems.

Brown is going to be smashed to oblivion in the election. God only knows why he is clinging on like a power crazed barnacle - in fact, that is why he is clinging on.

If he goes now, he may leave with some dignity knowing he was the most hated PM in the last hundred or two hundred years. Come next year it will be the most hated PM ever.

GO NOW YOU IMBECILE!!!

robin_banks

The_White_Horse wrote: »

i told everyone in 1997 that this whole "labour" thing would end in disaster.

it gives me enormous pleasure to say that I was right. Obviously I knew I was right, but now everyone knows I was right.

All the lefties are good for is arguing their "intellectually enlighted" viewpoints in the coffee shops, wearing their cardigans and sandals, whilst eating lentils. What they are not good for is running a real country with real problems.

Brown is going to be smashed to oblivion in the election. God only knows why he is clinging on like a power crazed barnacle - in fact, that is why he is clinging on.

If he goes now, he may leave with some dignity knowing he was the most hated PM in the last hundred or two hundred years. Come next year it will be the most hated PM ever.

GO NOW YOU IMBECILE!!!

All political careers end in failure, for that is the nature of politics. A quote from Enoch Powell.

Tbh I doubt Brown will be 'the most hated PM ever' , he's far more likely to be remembered as someone who was PM during a catastrpohic failure of the world's banking system and all the s**t that goes with it. He did his best during a period when new Labour just ran out of steam.

Cameron will be the most hated PM ever in 9 years time, till he loses office and so on and so on.......

Graham_Devon

robin_banks wrote: »

All political careers end in failure, for that is the nature of politics. A quote from Enoch Powell.

Tbh I doubt Brown will be 'the most hated PM ever' , he's far more likely to be remembered as someone who was PM during a catastrpohic failure of the world's banking system and all the s**t that goes with it. He did his best during a period when new Labour just ran out of steam.

Cameron will be the most hated PM ever in 9 years time, till he loses office and so on and so on.......

Tony Blair's career certainly didn't end in failiure!

CLAPTON

The_White_Horse wrote: »

i told everyone in 1997 that this whole "labour" thing would end in disaster.

it gives me enormous pleasure to say that I was right. Obviously I knew I was right, but now everyone knows I was right.

All the lefties are good for is arguing their "intellectually enlighted" viewpoints in the coffee shops, wearing their cardigans and sandals, whilst eating lentils. What they are not good for is running a real country with real problems.

Brown is going to be smashed to oblivion in the election. God only knows why he is clinging on like a power crazed barnacle - in fact, that is why he is clinging on.

If he goes now, he may leave with some dignity knowing he was the most hated PM in the last hundred or two hundred years. Come next year it will be the most hated PM ever.

GO NOW YOU IMBECILE!!!

In terms of most peoples everyday living the last 12 years were pretty good.
Undoubted improvements in general living standard, improved health service, more money in education etc.

do you regret e.g. the reduced waiting times for cancer treatment and do

you think that a conservative government would have done the same

also of course lots of things I don't like, lots of wastful spending, mindless changes, general iiliberal policies etc etc

The financial meltdown happened on his watch.. he helped contribute to it but then so did previous governements and frankly the broad sweep of general financial opinion.

Long after Brown is forgotten, Thatcher will wrongly or rightly will be both the most hated and possibily most admired PM