Virgin Train unfair charges

Mark_Hewitt

I'm led to believe that 'off peak' is all day in certain locations, notably outside of London.

geordieracer

Mark_Hewitt wrote: »

I'm led to believe that 'off peak' is all day in certain locations, notably outside of London.

Indeed. I know that Chiltern Railways do 'off peak' all day from london to all stations to birmingham..

Though i never thought godwins law would apply in a rail ticket thread but i guess i was wrong. by anewman :rolleyes:

Mark_Hewitt

Godwins law applies to *all* internet discussions

geordieracer

Mark_Hewitt wrote: »

Godwins law applies to *all* internet discussions

:rotfl::T:rotfl:

Just been chatting to a guard i know who works at Virgin and he claims the guard on the train was correct. Their policy(as should be announced) is that if you board a peak time train with an off peak ticket you will be liable to pay the full fare for the entire part of your journey. He also states that NXEC do the same.

Rail_Staff

National Rail Conditions Of Carriage, Section A.12 has the answer.

The guard is entitled to charge the passenger to Wigan, the charge should be the difference in the fare paid and the fare due. The guard is acting beyond his remit by issuing a whole new ticket rather than just an excess.

Hopefully the passneger retained their tickets and submitted them to Virgin for recompense.

shefstudentboi

geordieracer wrote: »

Just been chatting to a guard i know who works at Virgin and he claims the guard on the train was correct. Their policy(as should be announced) is that if you board a peak time train with an off peak ticket you will be liable to pay the full fare for the entire part of your journey. He also states that NXEC do the same.

The guard was wrong.

You are right that the policy is to charge for the full fare for the entire journey; however the passenger would have paid the full fare if the off peak ticket is excessed to a full fare ticket. Making the passenger buy a completely new full fare ticket, and ignoring the one she already had, would be charging more than the full fare, and she would be paying more than a customer who hadnt been to the ticket office, yet wanted to buy a ticket on the train.

The only circumstances where passengers will have to buy a completely new ticket is if they board the wrong train with an advance ticket, or if they dont have their railcard for their railcard discounted ticket (although some guards will just charge the excess to an undiscounted ticket).

shefstudentboi

Rail_Staff wrote: »

National Rail Conditions Of Carriage, Section A.12 has the answer.

The guard is entitled to charge the passenger to Wigan, the charge should be the difference in the fare paid and the fare due. The guard is acting beyond his remit by issuing a whole new ticket rather than just an excess.

Hopefully the passneger retained their tickets and submitted them to Virgin for recompense.

Absolutely right! The guard could be tracked down from the departure time of the train and should be retrained.

This topic seems to have also been discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27857

FARE-COP

shefstudentboi wrote: »

The guard was wrong.

You are right that the policy is to charge for the full fare for the entire journey; however the passenger would have paid the full fare if the off peak ticket is excessed to a full fare ticket. Making the passenger buy a completely new full fare ticket, and ignoring the one she already had, would be charging more than the full fare, and she would be paying more than a customer who hadnt been to the ticket office, yet wanted to buy a ticket on the train.

The only circumstances where passengers will have to buy a completely new ticket is if they board the wrong train with an advance ticket, or if they dont have their railcard for their railcard discounted ticket (although some guards will just charge the excess to an undiscounted ticket).

Absolutely right ......... and from the details of the conversation 'overheard by the OP'.... do we know exactly what ticket this third party traveller held??

No.

So if it was an advance booking for a different train, the guard was not exceeding his authority.

geordieracer

shefstudentboi wrote: »

The guard was wrong.

You are right that the policy is to charge for the full fare for the entire journey; however the passenger would have paid the full fare if the off peak ticket is excessed to a full fare ticket. Making the passenger buy a completely new full fare ticket, and ignoring the one she already had, would be charging more than the full fare, and she would be paying more than a customer who hadnt been to the ticket office, yet wanted to buy a ticket on the train.

The only circumstances where passengers will have to buy a completely new ticket is if they board the wrong train with an advance ticket, or if they dont have their railcard for their railcard discounted ticket (although some guards will just charge the excess to an undiscounted ticket).

I thought they had booked an advanced ticket though hence why i said it. i even heard it when i went to Runcorn last thursday at stupid o'clock in the morning..

Maybe i read the OP wrong.

bunking_off

anewman wrote: »

An announcement on the train - how does that help?! They've got on the train, sat down, the doors have closed, the train has moved off from the platform and everyone is held prisoner - then an announcement is made, wonderful. Or if it's anything like some of the trains I've been on the voice is completely inaudible because the voice is of a foreigner who's only just started beginner's English, or the sound system is too poor to be able to hear it.

I travel on VT from London 2 or 3 times a week. On peak hour trains, the guard makes an announcement about off-peak not being valid, and for Advance ticket holders to check they're on the correct train, every 5 minutes before the train departs. Given 20 mins between the gates opening and train departure, this is normally 3 to 4 times. It's impossible to miss it unless you're simply not listening.

Also interests me a little...the OP says they were on a London-Manchester service (evidently via Crewe). As far as I'm aware, the timetabled London-Wigan journey is always direct, other than a single combination (1610 departure) where the traveller takes a London-Bangor service and changes at Crewe. I'm not saying that taking a London-Manchester service and changing at Crewe isn't an acceptable routing to Wigan, but it isn't one that anyone would be advised to take. So the woman was on the wrong train in more ways than one.