Virgin Train unfair charges

arbitrabbit

I was travelling from London to Manchester today on a peak time train when I happened across a very strange conversation today onboard the Virgin Trains. A woman and her kid had accidentally boarded the peak train with an off peak ticket and the ticket checker was asking her to pay up. What I found bizzare was:

1. The woman was travelling from London to Wigan and had a valid off peak ticket and Virgin train is the only provider on the London Manchester route. Despite that the woman was not allowed to pay the difference between her original ticket and the new full price ticket.
2. What was even more strange was that the ticket checker insisted on issuing a ticket to Wigan despite the woman telling him that she would get off at Crew and wait till her off peak ticket was valid to travel and hence he should only issue her a ticket from London to Crew. Since she didn't agree the ticket checker had to go and get a policeman who said that the ticket checker was right. I don't understand on what basis though.

The same thing happened to at least 3 people in my coach so I can imagine that this is something that is a very regular occurrence. I do believe that Virgin is unfairly charging its customers.
Do you think Virgin has any case here, especially on point 2? Is there any agency where I can complain about this?

anewman

You're supposed to have a valid ticket before getting on the train is all I know. Making someone pay for the entire journey rather than the next available stop seems unusual though. I wonder what they do in instances where someone is unable to provide a ticket and will not tell them where their intended destination is.

ben500

Her ticket was to Wigan, as Wigan was her intended destination that is the destination for which the excess amount is due for, otherwise everybody would use the same excuse of getting off the next stop to avoid penalty whenever caught. You said yourself at least three other people in your carriage were in the same position, do you honestly think they all made the same mistake? Just because she had a child with her doesn't mean she is any less likely to be a fare dodger than any of the rest of them.

arbitrabbit

Given that everyone's tickets are checked on all the peak time trains I have ever travelled on, I do tend to find it difficult to believe that everyone is trying to dodge the high fares.

And if they have to charge penalty fares then so be it. She could have been going to Crew and in that case they wouldn't have charged her anything above the ticket to Crew so why discriminate against people who are travelling for longer distances? If it is a penalty, make it clear it is a penalty... though to be fair, the prices are so high that the don't really need to charge a penalty.

dzug1

What grounds do YOU have to complain at all? It wasn't you who had to pay.

Virgin Trains do not operate a penalty fare system. You pay the appropriate fare for the journey you are undertaking. Given the ticket she held, that was to Wigan.

If you want to complain about the national Conditions Of Carriage then you need to complain to the rail regulator.

Quentin

arbitrabbit wrote: »

though to be fair, the prices are so high that the don't really need to charge a penalty.

Not a very well thought out argument! (Bit like the OP!)

If there was no penalty for not having the correct ticket, why would anyone ever bother queing up to buy a ticket?

geordieracer

arbitrabbit wrote: »

Given that everyone's tickets are checked on all the peak time trains I have ever travelled on, I do tend to find it difficult to believe that everyone is trying to dodge the high fares.

And if they have to charge penalty fares then so be it. She could have been going to Crew and in that case they wouldn't have charged her anything above the ticket to Crew so why discriminate against people who are travelling for longer distances? If it is a penalty, make it clear it is a penalty... though to be fair, the prices are so high that the don't really need to charge a penalty.

Take it from someone who works on the railway - the amount of people who try and avoid paying the correct fare for the train they are on is massive!! We have caught Lawyers Doctors people who work in the Home Office and all sorts abusing the system. Its rife and a !!!!! to actually police. Thats why 4 people on your train got caught because they all know.

There is no complaint to be made - there is an annoucement on every train mentioning about off-peak tickets not being valid(on peak) and sitting in first class with a standard ticket.
Being stupid is no excuse for not having the right ticket for the train you should be on and one of the reasons the fares are high is to employ people to catch those who do not want to pay the correct fare - if anything at all.

robt_2

arbitrabbit wrote: »

I was travelling from London to Manchester today on a peak time train when I happened across a very strange conversation today onboard the Virgin Trains. A woman and her kid had accidentally boarded the peak train with an off peak ticket and the ticket checker was asking her to pay up.

You know it is accidental because...?

£100 says it wasn't accidental.

arbitrabbit

robt wrote: »

You know it is accidental because...?

£100 says it wasn't accidental.

Because this woman was sitting adjacent to me and we could both see the ticket checker approaching from a long distance away and she never made the attempt to evade him. If I was doing it delibrately, I would have at least made the attempt to either go to another coach or maybe the rest room but she tried neither.

arbitrabbit

dzug1 wrote: »

What grounds do YOU have to complain at all? It wasn't you who had to pay.

Read this poem and try to remember it... maybe it will do you some good in life. This was written about the lack of opposition to Hitler in Germany by the German intellectuals but applies to a lot of the situations we find ourselves in as well...

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

arbitrabbit

geordieracer wrote: »

Being stupid is no excuse for not having the right ticket for the train you should be on and one of the reasons the fares are high is to employ people to catch those who do not want to pay the correct fare - if anything at all.

Absolutely agree. However, why can't you charge the person the fare to the first stop and let them get off if they want to, given that even that would be a substantial amount? If you are imposiing a penalty, then say so clearly and impose that irrespective of where the person gets off. However, the insistence on issuing the ticket for the full journey is ridiculous. What if someone was going to Edinburgh and got on the train accidentally? Would he need to pay the full fare to Edinburgh, which is close to £200? Also, if the person has a ticket, why can't he pay the difference between the two? Southwest trains allow you to do so but not Virgin.