Howdens Traders passing on discount - Scam??

MaggieBaking

cddc wrote: »

And this is where you and many others are getting the wrong end of the stick as to what this case is about

I haven't said anything about the case - again, I was saying to the previous poster that RRP is not an unusual business practice.

I agree with the_r_sole, there's no facts to this case so I really can't have an opinion on it.

cddc

MaggieBaking wrote: »

I haven't said anything about the case - again, I was saying to the previous poster that RRP is not an unusual business practice.

I agree with the_r_sole, there's no facts to this case so I really can't have an opinion on it.

Point taken, but there have been some wild assumptions on here over what the consequenses of the OP's supposed win would have during this thread, which has been dominated by the OP's wild claim for a landmark victory with no details, and counter claims that it would mean the end of anyone making a profit, ever!

Glad to hear you are not in the second camp!

My point is, that along with many others in the K&B industry at the lower end, Howdens "retail" price is hugely inflated and never achieved. I could say for instance that the retail price for a 600 wall unit is £1000, and out of the goodness of my heart I am offering you a 90% discount. Do you feel good about this?

This is effectively what Howdens do. It is amazing how many people fall for this. I have had customers in front of me, when I have come up with a price for a kitchen that is lower than theirs for the same plan who have said to me "but you are still offering a lower discount rate than Howdens". To which the awnser is "Our stupidly inflated retail price is less stupidly inflated than theirs, hence I am cheaper than they are!"

System

cddc wrote: »

there have been some wild assumptions on here over what the consequenses of the OP's supposed win would have

and yours are no more or less wild since no one knows what the supposed win is for

MaggieBaking

cddc wrote: »

My point is, that along with many others in the K&B industry at the lower end, Howdens "retail" price is hugely inflated and never achieved. I could say for instance that the retail price for a 600 wall unit is £1000, and out of the goodness of my heart I am offering you a 90% discount. Do you feel good about this?

I had a Howden's kitchen installed last year. I was lucky in that I was able to use my Dad's trade account to arrange it myself and at no stage was I given any BS about how lucky I was to be getting a discount. If the kitchen fitters want to blag to the "punters" then let them, but most should know better than to think they're lucky to be getting such a "fabulous deal". I'm sorry your customers seem to be such simpletons!

cddc

Most people are smart enough to see through suppliers ruses when it comes to discounting, but it never ceases to amaze me that others are not.

This is why this bizarrely complicated price structure that most retailers and trade suppliers use on kitchens is persisted with. People like to think they are getting a bargain. Look you are getting a free dishwasher! Really?

It is a shame that the public seem to like it. It normally means they get a worse deal than if prices were open, fair and transparent.

But any supplier that has tried to do this in the past, has lost market share as a result and soon returns to the old ways.

Even somewhere as normally clear and transparent as Ikea operates a form of this on kitchens.

keystone

cddc wrote: »

Ah, but it is not this simple is it, because the OP has both the quote from Howdens on Howdens paperwork which the builder gave to her, and a copy of the final invoice. She can therefore quite rightly claim deception.

Based soley on your analysis as quoted no she can't.

Cheers

keystone

cddc wrote: »

Yes, but it is an educated guess

Who cares - generalities aren't relevant. You are guessing about the facts of this particular case.

No argument there, but you missed out my point that Howdens are a "trade only" supplier.

No I didn't miss your point at all. Whilst 100% true it has no relevance to this thread (and the facts of which we know all too little) and therefore drew no comment from me.

Cheers

keystone

cddc wrote: »

I know, you could well be right!

No he is absolutely right.

There is far more to this than the OP is letting on and until we get to see the full facts of the case and the full judgement, her claims about this being a landmark case etc..... should be taken with a large pinch of salt!

Exactly.

Does not mean that I agree with the way Howdens collude with tradesmen to BS customers over the price of their kitchens though

Your contributions to this thread are reading more and more like a "look at the very ethical policies carried out by my employer than the bunch of sharks that are the H company" campaign. I do hope I'm wrong.

Cheers

keystone

Leif wrote: »

There is no need for sarcasm.

Oh I hadn't intended to appear sarcastic. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

No matter how many times I read the two statements I come to the same conclusion. And I suspect that most people who are not in the trade, and who are not builders or tradesmen would agree with me.

Sorry looks like I may have missed a word out but it doesn't change the meaning for one solitary microsecond. Here it is again:

"he told me I was paying the Howdens price," is NOT the same as he "told me that he would supply it at his cost".

Cost and price are different quantities.

As I said, you need a court to decide based on the EXACT wording on any contract.

No you don't you need to be able to understand plain English. Its ideas like this that it need sto go to court means that solicitors get away with charging £235 per hour plus VAT. Put in context the builder appears to have made a gross profit on the kitchen of a days work for a solicitor.

But were you to sell me a kitchen at the 'Howdens price', and supply me with an 'invoice' that 'proved' the price, and yet you take a huge cut, I would consider you to be a shyster.

I wouldn't do that and I would agree with you that the person concerned has acted unethically but we have no proof whatsoever in this case apart from the OPs unsubstantiated word. If the proof is produced I'll be first in line casting the stones. This is why I am asking you why it is that you are dogmatically calling the OPs builder a fraud which is defaming his character

It almost seems as if tradesmen here are defending their patch in a rather aggressive manner.

Nope not at all. You have agreed that normal business practice is acceptable, the OP has agreed it. IF the builder concerned has deceived the OP then it is right that he feels the full force of the law to deal with him. However, the OP claims a groundbreaking ruling that (as described) will cause a spotlight to be cast on the business models of a great many business small and large alike. Thats what people on here are concerned about and thats why reasonable questions have been asked.

I see noone defending the alleged actions of this person whatsoever. If they have it is to be deprecated. Please show me where that has occured and how it allows you to draw your conclusion particularly when it leads to this:

If this thread has taught me one thing, it is to be extra careful when dealing with tradesmen etc. My dealings with a plumber and builder many years ago were fine, and recent experience with kitchen people (Optiplan) has been outstanding, very efficient and honest, but it looks like that might not be the norm.

which I personally find offensive.

Cheers

cddc

[
I would hardly say my employers are any more ethical than most of the others when it comes to selling K&B, true prices are still smoke and mirrors. That is true throughout the sector. Although,with my company and most others, the end user always knows what they have paid for the entire kitchen, the true cost of individual items can be hard to work out.

Not all Howdens branches or fitters that use them work in the way I have described, that is between the manager of the branch and the fitter if they go down this route. Most choose not to and deal with the end user in a fair and honest way. But it goes on though!

Like I said in another post, nothing wrong with the product, but make sure you get a fair price.

And as for the OP's case, will any of us ever find out for sure?