Brother taking advantage of my dad

RAS

cakeordeath wrote: »

I think that one of a parent's main jobs (aside from the love and nurture bit) is to equipped their children to go through life, it seems he and your mum did a smashing job of that with you as you've learned it well. By constantly bailing your brother out your father is being unfair to your brother, who obviously needs extra help from your dad with this. Ask your dad who's going to help his son when his money has gone....and doesn't he think that helping his son learn to stand on his own two feet will be a hundred times more valuable to him in the end?

Excellent post - very much agree with you.

It is a parent's responsibility to help their off-spring acheive independence, even if that means kicking them out of the nest sometimes.

I suspect your DB has married someone whose aspirations and living costs are unrealistically high. They are both trying to keep up with the lifestyle her family would expect, without the income. That is why her family are going to be the last to learn that their outward image is built on sand.

He just need to tell them that there is nothing left - show them the empty account and the withdrawals to fund their costs.

I am concerned that your bro may well respond to the possiility that he is made homeless by trying

a) to move the whole family in with dad.
b) trying to persuade him to take out loans against his property.

You really do need to talk to dad about this as best as you can.

chriszzz

Am sorry but I think I would be straight to the point, say it as it is, no beating around the bush.

I could not sit around saying/doing nothing when I can see exactly whats happening. Some of the posters here are right in saying that your dad needs to be helping him to manage his finances and that means....not bailing him out otherwise he will learn nothing.

At his age he should be more responsible for his actions, we all have to learn to manage debt, its only debt, that we got ourselves into and have to get ourselves out of, but to take the pi55 out of your own flesh and blood well then that would be the one for me to have to say how it is and stop this happening any further.

milliemonster

Thank you all so much for your support and advice, it has really helped to me to hear others views on this as sometimes I wonder if I'm 'getting too involved' in something that does not really concern me.

My dad has already taken on credit for him, my brother and his wife only have a basic bank account and aren't allowed a cheque book, I don't even think their card is a debit card, it's one of those preloaded ones my dad has told me? so when my brothers car broke earlier this year, the only way they could get the repairs done was for the garage to get the parts on the internet so dad had to buy them as my brother can't pay for anything online. Dad used his credit card and paid out over £1000 for these parts which my brother still hasn't completely paid off.

I can't ever see my brother asking my dad to take out a loan or anything for him and I do know my dad would not go that far, but on saying that, I don't know, I guess it would depend on how desperate they were?

My dad has recently approached me to say he is thinking of signing the house over to the three of us (yes we have an older sister aswell who again manages her own finances well and is disgusted at my brothers behaviour, she has spoken to my dad about it herself) but I have warned him that it may not be a good idea as I am worried sick that my brother could then raise money against his portion of the house and my dad end up without a home.

My brother would never deliberately try to extort money from him, he really isn't vindictive and I know that when he will have asked my parents for help he will have been extremely embarrassed by it, it's just that him and his wife can't budget for unforseen things and don't plan enough and it's when the sh*t hits the fan and they realise they don't have enough money for something urgent, they end up going to him for help and he then feels he has no choice. With the car it was a case of if dad didn't help him, nmy brother wouldn't have even been able to go to work (he was commuting 200 miles each way for his job at the time) so would lose his job so Dad felt he had no choice.

I just get so incensed when my Dad has helped them and then a month or so later find they are going off on romantic breaks, renting a more expensive house, still have Sky TV (full package aswell!), getting new mobiles etc etc when they still owe my dad that money.

I have got £10k of my dads money in a high interest savings account, my brother does not know I've got this although my sister does and I have already told my dad I will not give him any of this money to give to my brother under any circumstances. My dad could still have a lot of years left and I want to make sure he still has something to fall back on should HE need it

Errata

My brother would never deliberately try to extort money from him, he really isn't vindictive and I know that when he will have asked my parents for help he will have been extremely embarrassed by it, it's just that him and his wife can't budget for unforseen things and don't plan enough and it's when the sh*t hits the fan and they realise they don't have enough money for something urgent, they end up going to him for help and he then feels he has no choice. With the car it was a case of if dad didn't help him, nmy brother wouldn't have even been able to go to work (he was commuting 200 miles each way for his job at the time) so would lose his job so Dad felt he had no choice.

They know your dad will always give in, which is why they take no responsibility for their financial situation. It's a pattern which will continue until something happens to smash it.
Good to read you've got some of your dad's money out of your brother's reach. Can you talk to your dad about him giving you a bit more to add to it ?
Re the house, I don't think your brother could raise money, or sell, his 'share' without the knowledge and permission of the other owners - you and your sis. Otherwise husbands and wives and partners would be constantly raising cash on their property without the co-owner knowing. They don'ty, but you may want to seek professional advice on the ins and outs of this before any steps are taken by your dad. HTH

cakeordeath_2

Could you tell your dad that you think your brother may want him to refuse....or even make out that you 'know' he does but the pressure from his wife and kids for the holidays and 'high' living means he can't say no to them himself but secretly wants his dad to as it's the only way he can put a stop to their overspending without seeming to be the bad guy and being blamed? Perhaps then your dad would feel like he was 'stepping up' for his son and helping him out of a sticky situation.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that they have had some point asked her parents for money but they point blank refused so they won't even think about asking again, and I'm pretty sure that just a couple of firm refusals from your dad would be enough to make them realise that that avenue was also now closed to them and they'd stop asking. I'd also bet that your SIL and her kids wouldn't be so disrepectful of your father if he said no, at the moment they think he's a soft touch, that's why there is no respect and your brother actually needs them to respect his father and family for his own self esteem.

Savvy_Sue

Why would your dad sign the house over anyway? If it's in the hope of avoiding paying care home fees (should the need arise) it's not a straightforward transaction and won't necessarily save any money in the long term - Capital Gains Tax, intentional deprivation of assets, etc etc etc.

BallandChain

milliemonster wrote: »

Thank you all so much for your support and advice, it has really helped to me to hear others views on this as sometimes I wonder if I'm 'getting too involved' in something that does not really concern me.

My dad has already taken on credit for him, my brother and his wife only have a basic bank account and aren't allowed a cheque book, I don't even think their card is a debit card, it's one of those preloaded ones my dad has told me? so when my brothers car broke earlier this year, the only way they could get the repairs done was for the garage to get the parts on the internet so dad had to buy them as my brother can't pay for anything online. Dad used his credit card and paid out over £1000 for these parts which my brother still hasn't completely paid off.

I can't ever see my brother asking my dad to take out a loan or anything for him and I do know my dad would not go that far, but on saying that, I don't know, I guess it would depend on how desperate they were?

My dad has recently approached me to say he is thinking of signing the house over to the three of us (yes we have an older sister aswell who again manages her own finances well and is disgusted at my brothers behaviour, she has spoken to my dad about it herself) but I have warned him that it may not be a good idea as I am worried sick that my brother could then raise money against his portion of the house and my dad end up without a home.

My brother would never deliberately try to extort money from him, he really isn't vindictive and I know that when he will have asked my parents for help he will have been extremely embarrassed by it, it's just that him and his wife can't budget for unforseen things and don't plan enough and it's when the sh*t hits the fan and they realise they don't have enough money for something urgent, they end up going to him for help and he then feels he has no choice. With the car it was a case of if dad didn't help him, nmy brother wouldn't have even been able to go to work (he was commuting 200 miles each way for his job at the time) so would lose his job so Dad felt he had no choice.

I just get so incensed when my Dad has helped them and then a month or so later find they are going off on romantic breaks, renting a more expensive house, still have Sky TV (full package aswell!), getting new mobiles etc etc when they still owe my dad that money.

I have got £10k of my dads money in a high interest savings account, my brother does not know I've got this although my sister does and I have already told my dad I will not give him any of this money to give to my brother under any circumstances. My dad could still have a lot of years left and I want to make sure he still has something to fall back on should HE need it

I'm confused as I thought you said earlier:

'Yes my dad is able to make decisions, and I wouldn't really want to take control of his finances anyway as he is independent and of sound mind'.

So he does have money put by? I think your dad needs to learn to say no and as for the house he should keep it in his name. That way he has a home as he's lost money already through giving money to your brother. Incidentally if he was so embarrassed to ask your dad for help he would have ensured he wouldn't make the same mistake again and again...