Clinic for behavioural problems?

culpepper

my DD was a dreadful madam from an early age. At school she had a hard time fitting in with the teachers although was a popular girl with pupils.
Our rule was,dont say 'no' without good reason and then give the reason .
We also used to say how the behaviour made us feel and why (which did take some remembering to do) but anyway,she is just 16 and a really nice girl now. My DS used to take advantage of this situation when they were small (he is 18 months older than she is) and would be a paragon of virtue whilst she was being a madam. I suppose he thought that if she was not going to be the favourite,it might as well be him ,it took a while for them to understand that there didn't need to be a favourite or a baddy. Fortunately he has also become a nice bloke.

misty

trippy wrote:

Thanks for the advice. She doesn't respond to anything! I have read all the books and tried all the techniques. I think she's reading them too and is one step ahead.

I don't know how much help this is but I remember seeing a programme (might have been house of tiny tearaways - I think Tania is brilliant) One of the parents on their had tried all the books etc - what she said (Tania) was that they weren't giving the child enough time to adapt to their new technique. Maybe you could give the ideas in your books a bit longer. Good luck - you'll look back and laugh one day.

trippy

fsdss wrote:

trippy what part of the country are you in?

Hi, We are just north of Manchester.

trippy

So YoungMinds called back and has decided that the deterioration in behaviour is down to DS (who is 18 months old). Whilst they both get equal amounts of attention and DD doesn't strive for more, she sees that DS (who as a 2nd born IS attention seeking) seems to get away with murder. So we need to try and equal out the discipline. Which is hard as DS doesn't even understand what a naughty step is so we haven't persisted in it and thought we'd wait until he's nearer 2. But he DOES get told off, but not in the same way as DD and in honesty probably does get away with behaviour that we would deem unacceptable from DD.

So we need to clamp down on DS more and go back to the basic strategy of rewarding DD's desired behaviour with stickers! We're talking about a girl who is very clued up about star charts and can modify her behaviour to get the reward then revert back afterwards. So we'll see how the sticker rewards go! ;p They're calling back in 3 weeks to see how it's going.

I agree with the previous poster and there didn't seem to be any modification of strategy for an intelligent child.

Am completely fed up though after conversation with my MIL who thinks children these days get away with murder and there's nothing wrong with a good smack! She actually said she thought the behaviourial psychologist was wrong!

Anyway, had a quick look at Asperger's Syndrome. DD is completely lacking in empathy and doesn't have particularly good social skills. But has very developed speech (and a very sarcastic tone sometimes!) and is able to pick up on body language etc. Fortunately the Educational Pschologist is coming to assess her tomorrow at nursery for this gifted thing so I can mention it to her before it becomes a worry.

Thanks for everyone's contributions.

mummysaver

Hi trippy - good luck with the assessment.

Just a thought, other parents are often very untruthful about how their children behave and how they parent them. Please don't feel that you are the only parents with a daughter who behaves in the way yours does, as many many children behave like this, but often parents want to seem perfect to their friends and so never admit that their child is a complete pain a lot of the time! Also many "older" people feel that any behaviour can be sorted out with a smack, I usually reply that they have had their go at parenting and look at the world today - perhaps it is time for a different approach! My child and my way!

As for keeping things equal between your children, this is really really important, but more important still is your daughter's perception of how things are being made "fair". Most of us can think of various injustices that we suffered as children, and how much more must we have felt them then? Obviously things that can be done to modify your dd's behaviour may well not be appropriate for your son, but if this is due to age explain that to your dd, and also remind her of the things that she does get to do that her baby brother isn't allowed to do - may help her realise that not everything can be exactly the same for both of them.

My four know that the same punishments exist for all of them if they fight or hurt each other: they are sent off to their rooms, or left out of whatever activity we are doing. But whilst I can stop my older ones going to a sleepover there is no equivalent for dd3 as she is too little for these, but then we have alternatives for her such as no sweets on a Saturday, or no comic when we go shopping. We try our best to be fair, but we don't always use the same stick or carrot for all of them, not just because of their ages, but because what would be seen by one as a treat may not be appreciated by another.

Autism and aspergers are something to perhaps discuss with your assessor, but many children exhibit some of the symptoms, but much of these conditions has to do with how children interract with others, and often comes down to a feeling you may have that something is not quite right. Lack of empathy can be a symptom, but it can also just be part of a child's personality, my eldest daughter really doesn't give a monkey's about much, but as she has got older we have kept explaining that even if she isn't impressed by someone she must still be kind and respectful (especially with teachers!). I think that at heart she simply isn't that bothered about other people or their opinions and is quite selfish, but she is learning that if you show little interest in others you get nothing back from them, so she is learning empathy, to her it definitely does not come naturally!

Anyway, hope it all works out well for you, and remember you can only do your best, keep plodding away and things will improve.

bookworm1363

Good luck with assessment. Please let us know how you get on.

Savvy_Sue

I agree that she's old enough to have it explained to her that little brother can't be expected to behave to the same high standard as she is. Because she is older than he is. And yes, that's not fair, life's not fair, life is tough, deal with it ...

I think it's a shame that the nursery allowed her to 'get away' with showing off her pjs. When I had to take my youngest to Reception in his pjs, I took his uniform in my bag, and the classroom assistant took him to quiet corner to dress in privacy. But he didn't get wanted attention for it. Next day I took him with no trousers on, and it was darned cold, so he learned after that!

black-saturn

My daughter was a bit like this. I had to teach her at home from the age of about 3 because nursery wasnt challenging enough for her. She was doing work meant for 6 year olds. When she started school she got bored easily. Shes levelled out with the rest now though but the doctors are looking into the possibility she could have aspergers syndrome.

Careful_girl

As a teacher in a school with some severe behavioural problems coming in I would agree with everyone above. Thhere are no easy answers. Just lots of attempts to support the child fitting in to our expectations. My advise would be

1. Make sure they know that you are the grown up and run the show.
2. What is not acceptable and clear consequences
3. That at all times the child is free to choose. However we give them the choice.Eg Either you get up and get dressed or you go as you are.
4. That when they please us we notice and thank them NOT expect it.EG thanks for getting dressed if you can eat breakfast quickly you can choose X.
5. That when a consequence is over, all is OK again.

I do explain to children that if they work with me I ll reward them. Good children get treats. I think sometimes we forget that we wouln't do things for nothing. Children do not naturally know what is appropriate. They just learn what works well for them. I also believe that they do not have an inane right to everything they want. It doesn't make happy children or happy adults. We have to teach them about this tough life and how to fit in and achieve.
It is exhausting though and nobody manages it all the time.
Alll the best.

trippy

Thanks for all your replies. The EP has said she is in the top 2% as dd worked through a test to the end which ranges from pre-school to 7 year olds.

With regard to the reward system, we do this and on the whole it seems to motivate her into good behaviour. However I would say that she knows how to work the system and it does not discourage bad behaviour. But at least she has high self-esteem and knows that she is a good girl.

We literally do not have any consequence that discourages bad behaviour or defiance as nothing bothers her. The level of defiance could not be any higher and I suppose I'm just grateful that she's not a teenager and going through this.