Clinic for behavioural problems?

trippy

Hi, My daughter is 4.5 and lately her behaviour has been shocking at times. She will no longer respond to discipline and constantly challanges us to the point when we literallly run out of ways to control her. She's a high achiever and will most likely start Primary school in September on the Gifted & Talented programme (which nursery are currently organising).

She is able to turn EVERY situation around so she doesn't lose. Eg. This morning she refused to get dressed. So we thought if we got her dressed ourselves, she would have got what she wanted (not having to dress herself + attention). So we took her to nursery in her pj's thinking she'd be mortified. As it turned out, she skipped up the path, excited to show her friends she was in the pj's and got loads of attention out of it.

We use the positive parenting approach and have often consulted the health visitors about behavioural issues, but feel this is getting out of their league. I was wondering if there are any clinics/ psychologists out there who could give us some one-to-one strategies for children who are too clever for their own good! I'm not brave enough to go on the House of Tiny Tearaways or Suppernanny (from the point of view of being on tv!).

mummysaver

Perhaps school will help her, and calm her down a bit!

My only suggestion is something that I do with my four children. If they are driving me dotty with awful behaviour, and the usual punishments aren't working, then we resort to just doing the basics: feeding them, letting them play at home, clean clothes. But we do not let them have any extras, such as telly, little treats like comics, visits to anywhere, swimming lessons. It takes time but they gradually learn that there is a price to be paid for bad behaviour, and equally that as part of a family they need to co-operate so that you can all have fun.

As a small child, bright or otherwise, your dd thinks that the world revolves around her, you need to convince her that it doesn't - easier said than done I know! Does she respond to simple things like if you get yourself dressed every day this week (never mind whether the clothes are ones that you have chosen) we can go to the swimming pool on Saturday, or to visit Grandma, or whatever appeals to her?

This is the method I try to use for my children, unless they are fighting and arguing with each other, in which case they are all put in their rooms, or some priviledge is withdrawn. It takes time to sink in, and you need to be tough enough not to let them have the extras, but it does work.

Just to say, my ds follows a gifted child programme, and many would say that he is too clever for his own good, and he turned up many many times at nursery and school wearing absolutely nothing, cos he refused to dress himself! One morning when it was snowing he realised that clothes would be a really good idea!

As far as my son is concerned I explain my decision once, and then simply refuse to discuss it. He too has a habit of turning things around, and making himself look like the injured party. I try to stay calm and just speak quietly when he starts! As he is now 12 things have calmed down a lot, but occasionally he starts doing something he knows isn't acceptable, and then he simply gets treated like a toddler again!

Your daughter sounds like a fairly normal bright little girl, I'd go with it most of the time, if she doesn't want to get dressed, fine, so long as you stick to your guns on the things that are really important to you (manners, meal times?) I should let the rest go. Sometimes children just like to push the boundaries and test you, once they finally realise you mean what you say they push a bit less often!

Bossyboots

A good post by mummysaver with sound advice.

trippy

Four children!!??

Thanks for the advice. She doesn't respond to anything! I have read all the books and tried all the techniques. I think she's reading them too and is one step ahead. It's all about control with her. She needs to have it. I don't know why, we're not control freaks and she's always had freedom within some very strong clear boundaries.

I have just phoned the YoungMinds parent info line and have got someone calling me back for a consultation. I am at the stage now where I have threatened to call someone to take her away. Not the thing you should be saying to a 4.5 year old so I'm looking for help (for me!)

jenniferpa

Mummysaver's advice is spot on. All I have for you is a few words of comfort. My DD, (IQ in the 150's) was hell on wheels at this age. Just like a teenager! She is now a charming, well-adjusted, delightful 20 year old. Also, having gone through the rebeliion stage at a very young age, the teenage years were a doddle. So hang in there, it get's better (and worse, and better....)

Jennifer

trippy

Well I had been hoping that the teenage years would be easier, so I'm glad there's a bright side. My friend's dd is 13 and is apparently hell on wheels. I had been experiencing a sense of dread as I couldn't imagine how much worse it could be than it is now. So one tiny cloud has lifted anyway!

bookworm1363

Just a thought, but have you looked into Autistic Spectrum Disorders, and Asperger's Syndrome in particular?

We were tearing our hair out with our son, who didn't respond to any of the usual techniques, and whose behaviour deteriorated steadily. (And I have another 2 before him, so I knew what to do!)

Then, I did some research on the Internet, and thought: uh-oh.
Then, I read Tony Attwood's "Asperger's Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals", and I had THE light-bulb moment. It took a long time from then to get it diagnosed, recognised and dealt with, but that's a different story.

It's not uncommon for AS kids to be gifted and VERY verbal. Look into it if only to eliminate it as a possibility.

Prudent

She obviously thrives on a challenge. Try to avoid any conflict e.g. "You can choose to go to nursery in your clothes or your pyjama. If you go in your pyjamas you may miss out on outings/ playing outside/ water play because you do not have the right clothing. I am sorry about that because you may feel left out - but it is your choice".Then ask the nursery to ensure she misses out on specified activities. Use the same technique at home. For some children sanctions and rewards can have limited impact. She may need to learn directly from the consequences of her own behaviour and the consequences will need to be explicitly explained.

jenniferpa

Just a word of warning. It has been my (limited) experience that extremely bright children are as much out of the norm for professionals as they are for their parents. Once you get into the system, they do have a tendency to want to diagnose something (even if it's simply inadequate parenting). This can be correct or it might not be - just try to step back from the situation if this happens. Also be prepared for the early years of school to be a disaster (sorry). These children can smell stupidity at a great distance but have not yet learnt the skills to work within the system. Unfortunately, every institution has rules, and some of them are more sensible than others. As an adult you can accept that, but it can be difficult for children to understand. I think the single thing that helped my DD most was our emphasis on kindness! It's unkind to tell people that they're acting stupidly; it's unkind to interrupt.. you get the picture. She has a strong sense of justice that helped. Mind you, the flip side of that is that she wouldn't hesitate to speak up if she felt that a person in authority was abusing that position, but we had a pact that we (her parents) would support her in that situation (which we did).

You may be fortunate - the school may turn out to be a case of a round peg in a round hole, but don't be surprised if that is not the case.

Jennifer

fsdss

trippy what part of the country are you in? there are numerous behaviour management courses that can be accessed however it depends on where you live, there is a book on managing childrens challenging behaviour by ?? mukherji?? which is easy to understand, and is usually available through libraries.

Dora_the_Explorer_5

trippy wrote:

Four children!!??

Thanks for the advice. She doesn't respond to anything! I have read all the books and tried all the techniques. I think she's reading them too and is one step ahead. It's all about control with her. She needs to have it. I don't know why, we're not control freaks and she's always had freedom within some very strong clear boundaries.

I have just phoned the YoungMinds parent info line and have got someone calling me back for a consultation. I am at the stage now where I have threatened to call someone to take her away. Not the thing you should be saying to a 4.5 year old so I'm looking for help (for me!)

YoungMinds will give you loads of info and help. Slightly Asberger's had crossed my mind too, so perhaps it could be useful to have her tested to provide the evidence that she hasn't got it. Then you know where you stand and can use appropriate parenting strategies.