Unemployment FALLS this month!!!!!!!

ruggedtoast

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

We are? So having less unemployment makes us losers does it? From my old friend Eurostat:

Spain: 18.9%
Latvia: 18.3%
Lithuania: 13.7%
Estonia: 13.3%
Ireland: 12.5%
Slovakia: 11.6%
France: 9.9%
Hungary: 9.6%
Sweden: 9.4%
EL(?): 9.2%
Portugal: 9.1%
EU Average: 9.1%
Finland: 8.7%
Poland: 8.0%
Belgium: 7.9%
UK: 7.8%
Germany: 7.7%
Italy: 7.4%

I ask again - what is is that we are doing right in the UK to protect jobs that the majority of Europe are failing to do? In a sane world, some of you would recognise that the answer involves government policies and actually give the government some credit for the job it is doing.

In a sane world. But Brown-frothers are not sane. Its not a global event. Its not a recession across the whole of the developed world. Its not hit countries regardless of the size of their housing market or their system of bank regulation. No. Its just in the UK, and its all Brown's fault.

One of the significant differences I can think of between the UK and the other countries on your list, is that the other countries actually count people who dont have a job and need one as unemployed, whereas we prefer not to.

If you add people ekeing out a living as hourly paid temps, sickness claimants, people who cant claim because their partners work, and kids working for dole on bogus training schemes, you'll find the figures will go up quite a lot.

Rochdale_Pioneers

ruggedtoast wrote: »

One of the significant differences I can think of between the UK and the other countries on your list, is that the other countries actually count people who dont have a job and need one as unemployed, whereas we prefer not to.

Yes every time I quote Eurostat and the facts disagree with the spin I get told "its comparing apples and oranges".

Except that it isn't. Eurostat produce their own figures, not report someone elses. In this case they use the International Labour Organisation's definition of unemployed and apply it to every nation.

So, you want to have another go in rebutting the facts? Why not start with reading the actual report (as you patently haven't)

ruggedtoast

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Yes every time I quote Eurostat and the facts disagree with the spin I get told "its comparing apples and oranges".

Except that it isn't. Eurostat produce their own figures, not report someone elses. In this case they use the International Labour Organisation's definition of unemployed and apply it to every nation.

So, you want to have another go in rebutting the facts? Why not start with reading the actual report (as you patently haven't)

How do they collate the numbers though? Is it respondent based or do they extrapolate a sample.

"Under these guidelines the unemployed are persons of working age who, in a specified period, are without work and are both available for and are actively seeking work."

If theyre not using the governments figures by what parameters are they deciding that those excluded are not actively seeking work?

For Australia, Canada, Japan, Korea, New Zealand, and the United States the harmonised rates and the unemployment rates are identical because the OECD does not perform any additional calculation and publishes the rate calculated with the data provided by the countries. For these cases, the methodologies of the survey are assessed as producing ILO employment and unemployment figures. For all European Union countries and Norway Eurostat estimates a monthly HUR. To produce monthly rates, Eurostat uses the results of the surveys and the monthly number of registered unemployed when the surveys only produce quarterly results. For United Kingdom and Finland, Eurostat does not perform any calculation since the survey produces monthly results.

What does that mean?

Rochdale_Pioneers

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What does that mean?

It means that they produce figures which are different to the ones produced by the government:

"Member states may publish other rates such as register based unemployment rates, or rates based on national labourforce surveys or corresponding surveys. These rates may vary to those published by Eurostatdue to a different definition or methodological choices".

Its very very simple. The same methodology is done across all member states. It is independent of governments. It is uniform. It is quite simply comparing like for like.

I know this will upset many people, for whom disaster feeds their fetish about the UK being worst and bankrupt and it all being Brown's fault. But the facts are clear. Unemployment in the UK - bad though it is - is actually substantially better than the EU average, and less than half the worst-performing offenders. Countries not governed by Brown have inexplicibly crashed into a deep recession which has produced worse unempoyment than here. Must be a conincidence....

Heyman_2

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Countries not governed by Brown have inexplicibly crashed into a deep recession which has produced worse unempoyment than here. Must be a conincidence....

Nahhhh, it's all Brown's fault

ruggedtoast

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

It means that they produce figures which are different to the ones produced by the government:


.

Yes, I am aware of that. From where do the figures come?

Edit - by the way the suggestion that the uk offers a standard of living exceeding, let alone comparable to, France or Germany, is absolutely laughable.

A lot of the UK looks like a developing country compared to Western Europe.

Entertainer

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

We are? So having less unemployment makes us losers does it? From my old friend Eurostat:

Spain: 18.9%
Latvia: 18.3%
Lithuania: 13.7%
Estonia: 13.3%
Ireland: 12.5%
Slovakia: 11.6%
France: 9.9%
Hungary: 9.6%
Sweden: 9.4%
EL(?): 9.2%
Portugal: 9.1%
EU Average: 9.1%
Finland: 8.7%
Poland: 8.0%
Belgium: 7.9%
UK: 7.8%
Germany: 7.7%
Italy: 7.4%

I ask again - what is is that we are doing right in the UK to protect jobs that the majority of Europe are failing to do? In a sane world, some of you would recognise that the answer involves government policies and actually give the government some credit for the job it is doing.

In a sane world. But Brown-frothers are not sane. Its not a global event. Its not a recession across the whole of the developed world. Its not hit countries regardless of the size of their housing market or their system of bank regulation. No. Its just in the UK, and its all Brown's fault.

Except it was lower than nearly everywhere in the EU in 1997 as well. Including Germany and Italy. And I don't remember Blair/Brown saying what a great job the Major government had done with the economy.

Rochdale_Pioneers

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yes, I am aware of that. From where do the figures come?

Have you read the report? It tells you there.....

ruggedtoast

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Have you read the report? It tells you there.....

You mean this:

The numbers of unemployed and the monthly unemployment rates are estimates based on results of the LFS which is a continuous household survey carried out in Member States on the basis of agreed definitions. These results are interpolated/extrapolated to monthly data using national survey data and/or national monthly series on registered unemployment. The most recent figures are therefore provisional; results from the Labour Force Survey are available 90 days after the end of the reference period for most Member States.

Well if the sample is large enough it would be ok - I dont see any sample data however, or much about the statistical methodology.

Can I ask a question - do you honestly believe the UK citizen is on average better off than Germany or France?

Rochdale_Pioneers

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Well if the sample is large enough it would be ok - I dont see any sample data however, or much about the statistical methodology.

Well if the sample is large or small, good enough or not, it is uniform. It is the same across every member state. It compares like with like. You produce a different set of figures produced independently with identical methodology and lets look at those. Until then this is as good as it gets. Its cuts through all the nonsense about not comparing like with like produced by people whose sole agenda is to prove that Britain is a failure.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Can I ask a question - do you honestly believe the UK citizen is on average better off than Germany or France?

I would have thought that on average absolutely anyone is on average better than a Frenchman. I can think of worse nationalities to be, but not many. This country is on average absolutely brilliant. Its home. Its what we make of it. Its not perfect and there are things to improve - so why not work towards that instead of bashing it all the time?