Parked in Battersea park for first time on a SUNDAY. Didn't see tiny sign, got fined.

jackhulk

Hello

As I live in South West London, I am used to making sure to pay and display. Every street I have ever parked on with pay and display has been clearly sign posted (large standard signs) and most are free on Sundays.

Last Sunday, for the first time ever, I drove to Battersea Park. I parked up, had some fun times in the park, rowed a boat, came back and found a parking ticket on my car. I was gob smacked! I visited many local parks and never once had to pay to park, so it didn't even enter my mind to check, then I thought 'where are the all the signs warning pay and display'?!

Sure enough, I found a TINY one above my head which of course I just didn't see and how would I, being that small and that high up?! I parked up, got out and walked straight into the park.

http://img154.imageshack.us/i/041020091676.jpg/

http://img245.imageshack.us/i/041020091677.jpg/

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/041020091678.jpg/

http://img56.imageshack.us/i/041020091679.jpg/

Standard size pay and display sign (which I thought was standard).
http://img245.imageshack.us/i/041020091680.jpg/

As you can see from the pictures, signage is minimal. I got out my car and walked directly into the park so had no chance of seeing that 'sign'. Surely they could of made the sign bigger, or put some on the opposite side where you enter the park?

I kinda feel I'm clutching at straws here as there was a 'sign', so my fault for not see/checking, however, bare in mind that ALL the signs are tiny, high up and there was no pay and display warnings on entering the car park.

As I said, I am very aware of pay and display, but these one caught me out (my first ever parking ticket) so I'd fought I run it past you guys first to see if you think its worth appealing or not?

Thank you

Guys_Dad

jackhulk wrote: »

Hello



Sure enough, I found a TINY one above my head which of course I just didn't see and how would I, being that small and that high up?! I parked up, got out and walked straight into the park.

http://img154.imageshack.us/i/041020091676.jpg/

http://img245.imageshack.us/i/041020091677.jpg/

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/041020091678.jpg/

http://img56.imageshack.us/i/041020091679.jpg/

Standard size pay and display sign (which I thought was standard).
http://img245.imageshack.us/i/041020091680.jpg/

As you can see from the pictures, signage is minimal. I got out my car and walked directly into the park so had no chance of seeing that 'sign'. Surely they could of made the sign bigger, or put some on the opposite side where you enter the park?

To be honest, I wouldn't fight this one. From your photos, you are parked right under a sign with a reasonably sized "P" - I can see that even if I can not read what is below.

The reason I say don't fight it is that, even if you win, you stand every chance of losing your licence on failing the eyesight test! Whatever the legalities of sign sizes, etc, it seriously worries me if you are claiming you didn't see it or couldn't read it, as it does raise questions about your fitness to drive.

If, on the other hand, you were just wrapped up in your day out and are trying to find a way of wriggling out - I assume it is a council sign - then good luck! But you should ALWAYS assume that parking in London, whenever, is chargeable, UNLESS it states the opposite.

Coupon-mad

Guys_Dad wrote: »

To be honest, I wouldn't fight this one. From your photos, you are parked right under a sign with a reasonably sized "P" - I can see that even if I can not read what is below.

The reason I say don't fight it is that, even if you win, you stand every chance of losing your licence on failing the eyesight test! Whatever the legalities of sign sizes, etc, it seriously worries me if you are claiming you didn't see it or couldn't read it, as it does raise questions about your fitness to drive.

If, on the other hand, you were just wrapped up in your day out and are trying to find a way of wriggling out - I assume it is a council sign - then good luck! But you should ALWAYS assume that parking in London, whenever, is chargeable, UNLESS it states the opposite.

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today, Guys Dad?

What do you mean 'whatever the legalities' and 'I wouldn't fight it'?

Well jackhulk, what I would do is take your pictures to a better forum on such matters, as personally I think the signs look tiny (even though sadly you parked right under one which doesn't help matters!) and I wonder why there are no lines on the road/carpark? Are there any signs at all as you drive into that car park?

Scan also a copy of the front and back of the PCN (even the legal-looking bits that seem to be standard). White out any identifying details and then repeat your opening post with the PCN scans added, after registering on www.pepipoo.com.

They will have some constructive info for you and if their advice is 'not to fight it' then you can be sure you've been given the best advice rather than a grumpy rant about your eyesight...:rolleyes:

Good luck. Personally I would now always look to appeal a parking ticket, I feel they are legalised extortion particularly when you've not caused any obstruction.

Somerset

jackhulk

Haven't got a clue about the legalities so won't spout off. It's just I'm an ex-Londoner and used to take my dog to Battersea park all the time. They've been charging (play & display) for parking for donkey's years. The wardens there are red-hot about patrolling and ticketing. And I think they're even more rigerous at the weekends ( incl Sunday ) as they used to have so many events etc, that they must have been making a fortune from parking over the weekend.

I know this doesn't help you - I've had a couple of tickets in my time (my fault) and it does hurt when it happens :mad:

Guys_Dad

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side today, Guys Dad?

Bed? Wish I had one. No, had to sleep elsewhere last night because some ****** in a car parked it in Battersea Park, where I usually kip and ignored the nice blue & white sign I put up to reserve my place. :beer:

a11waysindebt

If you cant see that sign you need to go to Specsavers.

sarahg1969

a11waysindebt wrote: »

If you cant see that sign you need to go to Specsavers.

I can't access the photos here at work, but I assume you can confirm that the sign and the ticket are both worded correctly and are perfectly enforceable?

Neil_B

Guys_Dad wrote: »

To be honest, I wouldn't fight this one. From your photos, you are parked right under a sign with a reasonably sized "P" - I can see that even if I can not read what is below.

Oh lovely. 'Reasonably' ---- exactly the word used by the Judge in Davies v Heatley. 'Reasonably' isn't relevant --- the sign must comply.

On 'P' -- well yeah you can see it --- and all it says is that he can park! Doh.

Guys_Dad wrote: »

The reason I say don't fight it is that, even if you win, you stand every chance of losing your licence on failing the eyesight test! Whatever the legalities of sign sizes, etc, it seriously worries me if you are claiming you didn't see it or couldn't read it, as it does raise questions about your fitness to drive.

1/. Phhhrrrrwwww! How would that happen then?

2/. Legalities of sign sizes have no relevance and serve no purpose at all then? Why do you think they are set? Obviously they have to be readable in relation to the eyesight requirements of driving!


Minimum dimensions for the sign are 200mm square. Unsure what that looks like.

More importantly -- it is only a reminder. The car park should have clear signs informing you of the need to P&D and the charges, etc. He says there are none?

---

Still checking for requirements of accompanying signs. Will be in 'Directions' or Regs.

---

Too many people talking opinionated, negative, irrelevant tosh on this forum.

jackhulk

Thanks all.

I will do as advised Coupon-Mad, no harm in trying.

Funny enough Guy-Dad, I actually am due an eye test and I've been telling them for years I reckon I do need glasses but they always say my sight is fine?! I reckon if I show them these pics, I will come out with the biggest pair of glasses you have ever seen! lol

Guys_Dad

jackhulk wrote: »

Thanks all.

I will do as advised Coupon-Mad, no harm in trying.

Funny enough Guy-Dad, I actually am due an eye test and I've been telling them for years I reckon I do need glasses but they always say my sight is fine?! I reckon if I show them these pics, I will come out with the biggest pair of glasses you have ever seen! lol

At least you may have seen that I was replying somewhat tongue in cheek (there is, obvously no way that a parking ticket would lead to disqualification for bad eyesight in the way I suggested) and I suspect with your reply you probably guessed that the last para of my original comment was actually my message.

Neil/Sarah. You are, of course perfectly correct and your advice is, as always, spot on. Just sometimes, however, things appear on the face of it to be one way to one person and another to someone else. I found that parking beneath a really visible sign that was apparent, whether or not it was legal, seemed daft and my reply should not have been taken seriously. I obviously didn't make it clear enough to all readers - especially you both who take this topic very seriously at all times - that I was being a a touch sarcastic/tongue in cheek and poking a bit of fun at Jack.

There are, apparently, signs in the park like this one

http://www.batterseapark.org/html/parking.html

flyingscotno1

The sign that is shown above car is a reminder sign. There should be other signage in the car park I think.