Royal Mail national strike looms for Christmas

custardy

Generali wrote: »

A few hundred pounds of TNT at the union HQ should encourage the workers back to work!

Seriously, the Royal Mail is a failing business. People send emails and bank electronicaly these days. My (4 year old) kid wanted to send a 'letter' to his Grandma so we got him to dictate an email to send, that's the way things are going.

If you're working for a firm in a declining industry then you can either help it become more competitive by getting more work done for less money (either by being more productive or accepting that you must work harder) or you can watch the company shrink in line with the industry.

By striking and putting in place restrictive agreements time after time, the unions have wedded themselves to the latter course of action. Every time they strike or push for better conditions is another nail in the coffin of the company.

sigh,i wish people would read all the thread(s)
packet traffic is up year on year
RM use false data to show a 10% drop every year (i have already posted on this)

so basically in your argument RM is doing everything right and the workers wrong?
i did some checking as i thought the drop in staff since single deliveries were brought in was 30,000
seemingly its more like 60,000
so 60k staff less with staff levels dropping every year through redundency leavers etc
more and more part time staff coming in meaning the full time staff have to take up the 'slack' until the PT staff come on duty.
RM make cost cutting demands across the board regardless of any local issues.
it doesnt matter how tight trhings are per unit the cuts must be made
eg (and ive again posted many times on this)
my own office has done all RM required,changes in duties,delivery systems,duties,staff levels the lot
dutys fail every week. the timings RM use are flawed.
the georoute data is flawed.
timings are manipulated
RM's answer to failing duties is to leave mail/packets every day
dutys are brought in without any thought to how they will be done.
my own duty is to be done with a van,in an area with a few parking spaces in high demand
the software takes no account of this.

so as someone who has done all RM require while being told mail is down,its quiet etc but has a duty that is unachievable whats the answer? or is it all my fault as im too slow,not willing to work,just plain lazy?

azza21 wrote: »

Well its not like there is one company a monopoly, City Link, fed ex, ups and so on, all offer services i know there more expensive and not setup as well as royal mail as off yet. But these strikes are only going to make there businesses stronger, people will look for alternatives there has to be other options.

Why can't the goverment do what they done to the rail industry, we got EWS, freightliner and more all working across the country everyone at the time said that wouldn't work. Its working better then ever.

my point is TNT plus 28 others have full licenses to deliver mail. they dont because downstream access via RM is far cheaper for them.allowing them to undercut RM for the lucrative business contracts
do you think they care about your mail? do you think they want a universal service obligation?

Generali

custardy wrote: »

sigh,i wish people would read all the thread(s)

You want me to read 171 posts before posting? We all love an optimist but that's unlikely.

custardy wrote: »

packet traffic is up year on year
RM use false data to show a 10% drop every year (i have already posted on this)

so basically in your argument RM is doing everything right and the workers wrong?
i did some checking as i thought the drop in staff since single deliveries were brought in was 30,000
seemingly its more like 60,000
so 60k staff less with staff levels dropping every year through redundency leavers etc
more and more part time staff coming in meaning the full time staff have to take up the 'slack' until the PT staff come on duty.
RM make cost cutting demands across the board regardless of any local issues.
it doesnt matter how tight trhings are per unit the cuts must be made
eg (and ive again posted many times on this)
my own office has done all RM required,changes in duties,delivery systems,duties,staff levels the lot
dutys fail every week. the timings RM use are flawed.
the georoute data is flawed.
timings are manipulated
RM's answer to failing duties is to leave mail/packets every day
dutys are brought in without any thought to how they will be done.
my own duty is to be done with a van,in an area with a few parking spaces in high demand
the software takes no account of this.

so as someone who has done all RM require while being told mail is down,its quiet etc but has a duty that is unachievable whats the answer? or is it all my fault as im too slow,not willing to work,just plain lazy?

I don't think Royal Mail are 'in the right' as I don't feel the need to take sides.

Royal Mail are in a dying industry, that much is obvious. Do you really think that people will send more letters/cheques/invoices through the mail as electronic delivery becomes better/more accepted/more secure?

The fact remains that you have two choices as members of staff in a company in a dying industry:

- Help your company take more market share
- Try to maintain what you get at the expense of your employers.

Royal Mail employees are going for idea 2 and that's their choice. A corrollory to that is that Royal Mail employees will be expecting an ever increasing subsidy from the taxpayers of the country (I mean the actual taxpayers rather than state employees who give back money to the hand that gave it).

custardy

Generali wrote: »

You want me to read 171 posts before posting? We all love an optimist but that's unlikely.




I don't think Royal Mail are 'in the right' as I don't feel the need to take sides.

Royal Mail are in a dying industry, that much is obvious. Do you really think that people will send more letters/cheques/invoices through the mail as electronic delivery becomes better/more accepted/more secure?

The fact remains that you have two choices as members of staff in a company in a dying industry:

- Help your company take more market share
- Try to maintain what you get at the expense of your employers.

Royal Mail employees are going for idea 2 and that's their choice. A corrollory to that is that Royal Mail employees will be expecting an ever increasing subsidy from the taxpayers of the country (I mean the actual taxpayers rather than state employees who give back money to the hand that gave it).

what like being able to complete a duty in the 8 hours allocated? seems fair enough? we are talking about human beings here.
you can automate all you like but if you want mail delivered to the door then its via human
you say its dying yet as ive posted packet traffic is up year on year
D2D (unaddressed mail) is a growth industry so dont just write everything off as dying
subsidy? the last subsidy RM got was a loan
how will RM increase its market share with its hands and feet tied by a regualtor allowing competitors to undercut it while forcing it to be the only company tied to the USO?
then you have the oft touted RM pension deficit. this came mostly from RM's 13 year pensions holiday.
where do you think RM's profits went for those 13 years?
real tax payers? laughable,so now any tax paid from those in public service are worth less?

Generali

custardy wrote: »

what like being able to complete a duty in the 8 hours allocated? seems fair enough?
you say its dying yet as ive posted packet traffic is up year on year
D2D (unaddressed mail) is a growth industry so dont just write everything off as dying
subsidy? the last subsidy RM got was a loan
how will RM increase its market share with its hands and feet tied by a regualtor allowing competitors to undercut it while forcing it to be the only company tied to the USO?
then you have the oft touted RM pension deficit. this came mostly from RM's 13 year pensions holiday.
where do you think RM's profits went for those 13 years?
real tax payers? laughable,so now any tax paid from those in public service are worth less?

It doesn't really matter how long a person works, more the work they complete.

Ok, perhaps I'm wrong about mail traffic falling. I seem to be getting less post each year and the same seems to be true for the companies I'm working for. You talk about direct mail increasing but would it be fair to say that there is less profit per item in direct mail as in general post? If so, why would the company you work for be able to pay you as much for delivering it?

The Royal Mail's profits have been taken by the Exchequor over the last 13 years. The problem that employees have if they want to claw that back is to show that was a loan from the employees rather than the owner of the business taking the profits.

TBH, I am sympathetic to your lot: I'm a banker and I have lost everything (financially) as a result of the current problems. The fact remains that if you want a quid, someone else must give up a quid. People are becoming less willing to give up some cash in these times.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

Royal Mail are in a dying industry, that much is obvious

Generali wrote: »

. Do you really think that people will send more letters/cheques/invoices through the mail as electronic delivery becomes better/more accepted/more secure?
.

What about deliveries for online sales, I would have thought that was a growing industry

custardy

Generali wrote: »

Ok, perhaps I'm wrong about mail traffic falling. I seem to be getting less post each year and the same seems to be true for the companies I'm working for. You talk about direct mail increasing but would it be fair to say that there is less profit per item in direct mail as in general post? If so, why would the company you work for be able to pay you as much for delivering it?

The Royal Mail's profits have been taken by the Exchequor over the last 13 years. The problem that employees have if they want to claw that back is to show that was a loan from the employees rather than the owner of the business taking the profits.

TBH, I am sympathetic to your lot: I'm a banker and I have lost everything (financially) as a result of the current problems. The fact remains that if you want a quid, someone else must give up a quid. People are becoming less willing to give up some cash in these times.

D2D items are not tied by ther USO.they can be handled in bulk and sent direct to delivery offices so costs/handling are far lower than mail
the loan was for automation(an often touted RM phrase) and is yet to be spent on this.

It doesn't really matter how long a person works, more the work they complete.

and here is the crucial point.RM consider all of the new georouted duties equal and achievable within the 8 hour day
on top of this they consider there is spare time for lapsing/absorption(RM terms)on top of these duties
.if this is the benchmark now then what happens when RM demand more savings in January? according to RM i have spare time now yet im over my time every day (as are many others in my office)
the answer at local level is to 'stream' mail every day to ensure you make an A-Z delivery calling on all call points
then the next day you put in the streamed mail first then stream out that days mail and continue.
if thats not enough then you leave all the packets
now we're not even near xmas.

custardy

StevieJ wrote: »

What about deliveries for online sales, I would have thought that was a growing industry

as ive said packet traffic is up every year (even RM admit this)

Generali

custardy wrote: »

and here is the crucial point.RM consider all of the new georouted duties equal and achievable within the 8 hour day

That's the crucial point to postmen. To everyone else, the crucial point is that they want the communication they need to be delivered quickly and cheaply.

If someone owes me money, I don't care if they post me cheque or electronically transfer money into my account. If there's a risk the postmen will be on strike (again) then I do care - I want the electronic transfer and I may even offer a discount for it.

I live in Australia. If it's my Mum's birthday (she lives in England) then I know she likes to receive a card. I know that she would rather have an email on her birthday than a card at some point, 'meh, well y'no, we're on strike this week and next week's a bank holiday, and we've got a couple of strikes just after that. We might be able to deliver in a month. Or perhaps Royal Mail bosses will chuck it in the bin rather than pay strikers overtime because lets face it, we all must give a flying fk about your petty dispute!

The bosses and the workers are all rubbish and deserve what they will get in 20 years time. No job and no pension.

SingleSue

custardy wrote: »

and here is the crucial point.RM consider all of the new georouted duties equal and achievable within the 8 hour day
.

Ah, now here you do have my sympathy and was part of my point earlier...in my last office job, we were all allocated our piles of files to work through, all the piles were equal in size but equal in work they were not. We were all expected to finish our own piles ourselves with no assistance from anyone else, regardless of the work involved and in the time allocated until the end of our shift.

Now I am a fast typist, fast at calculations and could easily and quickly see if something was off kilter with the file....I also loved the really complicated, gritty files with lots of charges, delivery points and containers, something I could get my teeth into and finish quicker than anyone else yet strangely, I rarely had those files in my pile.

Others hated the complicated files, they always took longer because they were complicated, not rocket science, a file with 1 container involved would take a lot less time to complete than a file with 30 containers and multiple delivery destinations and charges would, if you was unlucky to get even one of those files, it made it very difficult to finish your allocated work in the designated time, so imagine if you had upwards of ten in your pile.

An impossible task.

So I got myself into trouble, I completed my work and then helped out my unlucky colleague who happened to have the begger pile that evening....luckily, the supervisor saw the sense of what I was saying about team work (after I explained it rather laboriously to her) and we could then help each other.

The result was a team (yes a team) of happy employees who could all finish on time (or close to it) rather than a very unhappy team who felt demoralised before they had even got started.

buglawton

Hmm that is a story to read to one's child at bedtime!