Tory cuts could be mighty unpleasant

Money_Grabber13579

headcone wrote: »

What is your point Tory loon?

Exactly what I said. How you can still admire Labour is beyond me after all they've done. You seem very defensive of them.

headcone

Generali wrote: »

I think Britain is a great country (most of my family and friends live there for a start).

The problem is that Britain has taken a bit of a wrong turn, basically by electing Labour governments - if you look at the economic history of the UK, Labour has consistently mismanaged and misruled in countless ways.

There are many wonderful things about Britain: the people, the countryside, London, the beer. There are also some less wonderful things about Britain: the economy, the bureaucracy, the intrusion of the Government into peoples' daily lives, the increasing authoritarianism (and if we're really being honest the weather(!)).

I tend to focus on the less wonderful things because that's the nature of the discussion around here.

Your prepositions would make for a fertile discussion.

You however seem to leave no room for manoeuver.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

The CKYY index of manufacturing production (link) fell from 87.1 to 84.5 between 1974 and 1979. By 1990 it had risen to 93.3 and by 1997 to 97.9.

It now stands at 88.8.

So industrial output fell under Labour in the 1970s (probably due to strike action and inefficient nationalised industries), rose under the Tory Governments (as a result of multinationals relocating to the UK most likely) and has fallen under New Labour (probably due to the end data point being during a disastrous recession - it was a little over 100 in 2007).

Yup, the figures surprised me too.

One thing I discovered in researching these numbers is that the share of skilled/semi-skilled/unskilled shifted pretty heavily under Thatcher from unskilled to semi-skilled and it was mostly unskilled workers that lost their jobs and were unable to find new work.

I think more analysis would be required, i.e. where were the losses and gains e.g. vast increase in non-labour intensive (and short term) North sea oil production.
I think that offshoring has taken a big bite out of UK and US manufacturing in recent time in addition to the recession. I think I read somewhere that the UK is still the worlds 6th largest manufacturer (and that surprised me) so maybe that declining £ is important after all.

This extract from a report backs up your figures.

UK manufacturing output in total grew during the 1980s by about 1% per annum.The UK
manufactured share of the growing domestic market declined by around1% per annum but exports
grew by 4% per annum over this period. The UK shareof world manufacturing exports declined rapidly
in the 1970s but has maintained a6% share since the early 1980s. (6% of the world export market is
equivalent to8% of that held by the eleven major exporters.) Japan, in contrast, has more thandoubled
its share to 16%. Germany has maintained its share at 20% over threedecades.

Pssst

Dave101t wrote: »

cuts in what exactly? i claim no benefits, and rarely use any public services, i will see no cuts so roll on in tories, or Bank Nationale d'Paris as someone mentioned.

Quite...I do not fear Tory cuts becuase quite simply,there is nothing much they can do to me at present.

As for public sector jobs...let us not fools ourselves. We all know that certain parts of the public sector are bloated and that they spend/cost far more money than can be justified for the results which they obtain.

Have you checked out the Guardian appointments section lately?

Cut cut cut i say..the British are used to cuts.

Generali

StevieJ wrote: »

I think more analysis would be required, i.e. where were the losses and gains e.g. vast increase in non-labour intensive (and short term) North sea oil production.
I think that offshoring has taken a big bite out of UK and US manufacturing in recent time in addition to the recession. I think I read somewhere that the UK is still the worlds 6th largest manufacturer (and that surprised me) so maybe that declining £ is important after all.

This extract from a report backs up your figures.

UK manufacturing output in total grew during the 1980s by about 1% per annum.The UK
manufactured share of the growing domestic market declined by around1% per annum but exports
grew by 4% per annum over this period. The UK shareof world manufacturing exports declined rapidly
in the 1970s but has maintained a6% share since the early 1980s. (6% of the world export market is
equivalent to8% of that held by the eleven major exporters.) Japan, in contrast, has more thandoubled
its share to 16%. Germany has maintained its share at 20% over threedecades.

I'm pretty sure CKYY doesn't include North Sea oil, mining or quarrying which is why I chose it. I find it amazing that industrial production rose substantially over the Thatcher period as it runs exactly counter to what everybody tells us.

I believe that in 2007, the UK exported more by £ value than at any point in her history.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

I'm pretty sure CKYY doesn't include North Sea oil, mining or quarrying which is why I chose it. I find it amazing that industrial production rose substantially over the Thatcher period as it runs exactly counter to what everybody tells us.

I believe that in 2007, the UK exported more by £ value than at any point in her history.

Especially as we turned from a net exporter to a net importer some time in 1984/5.

Generali

StevieJ wrote: »

Especially as we turned from a net exporter to a net importer some time in 1984/5.

Yeah, I think it was just prior to the Lawson Boom, around about then. I think in some months in the 1970s the trade balance went -ve (didn't BA buy some planes before the 1974 Feb election that the Tories blamed for a one-off trade distortion which cost them election?).

The thing is, being a net importer is always seen as being a bad thing but it only really shows that consumers in the country have buying power. China, for example, is a huge exporter mostly because the majority of her citizens are too poor to buy the output of her factories. It's become a cycle for them: wages are low so they can compete internationally but the home market is small and because the home market is small, they have to keep wages low so they can compete internationally and so on.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

Generali wrote: »

The problem is that Britain has taken a bit of a wrong turn, basically by electing Labour governments .

In your "humble" opinion.....

Generali

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

In your "humble" opinion.....

Not really.

There is a whole slew of statistics from Government debt to output to Sterling values which can show that Labour Governments are appalling and
Tory ones are less so.

Anyone who is over the age of 30 and still voting Labour is at best a misguided fool and at worst supporting despotism.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

Generali wrote: »

Anyone who is over the age of 30 and still voting Labour is at best a misguided fool and at worst supporting despotism.

My word, quite the little charmer today, aren't you old bean.

I've a couple of quotes for you "old chum"

"Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host"

or how about

"Growth in wisdom may be exactly measured by a decrease in bitterness "

Must dash - some of my "little ragamuffins" need teaching.....