Public sector pensions nearly over?

CLAPTON

peterg1965 wrote: »

Who said anything about sacking - I certainly didn't?? Outsource the lot - all those people you mention. It is attitudes like yours which pervade and are the explaination for nothing ever being done about it.

And your solution is???

you mean outsource these jobs just like hospital cleaning has been outsourced?

my attitude is that in any large enterprise all the people are valuable and contribute in their different ways to the success of the enterprise.
the fact that some are frort line and so highly visible to the public and some that backroom people isn't a measure of their worth to the overall success of the enterprise.

It seems to have become a (mindless) fashion to decry back office staff as if front line staff could function without them.

peterg1965

CLAPTON wrote: »

you mean outsource these jobs just like hospital cleaning has been outsourced?

my attitude is that in any large enterprise all the people are valuable and contribute in their different ways to the success of the enterprise.
the fact that some are frort line and so highly visible to the public and some that backroom people isn't a measure of their worth to the overall success of the enterprise.

It seems to have become a (mindless) fashion to decry back office staff as if front line staff could function without them.

I agree, all people who contribute to the success of an enterprise are worthy of recognition. However, it isn't MOD civil servants who are facing Taliban bullets, it isn't Police support staff who have to deal with drunken yobs, murders etc, it isn't NHS HR staff who deal with life or death decisions on a daily basis, need I go on? There is a considerable difference between 'front line' staff and those who 'support', generally on a very 'safe' 9-5 basis. Most of these activities can be outsourced successfully, that doesn't demean or undermine their value to the organisation, it reflects that their function is of a lesser risk and more easily performed by a private service provider.

CLAPTON

peterg1965 wrote: »

I agree, all people who contribute to the success of an enterprise are worthy of recognition. However, it isn't MOD civil servants who are facing Taliban bullets, it isn't Police support staff who have to deal with drunken yobs, murders etc, it isn't NHS HR staff who deal with life or death decisions on a daily basis, need I go on? There is a considerable difference between 'front line' staff and those who 'support', generally on a very 'safe' 9-5 basis. Most of these activities can be outsourced successfully, that doesn't demean or undermine their value to the organisation, it reflects that their function is of a lesser risk and more easily performed by a private service provider.

I'm not really sure that 'job risk' and private and public employment are much related and certainly see no relation to whether they should have a defined benefit or defined contribution pension.

The most dangerous jobs in the UK are neither police or army

and teachers, nurses, doctors etc could all equally be part of the private or public sector... just a political choice.

ses6jwg

Get a job in the public sector if you are so jealous?

Old_Slaphead

peterg1965 wrote: »

The only truly 'deserving' public sector pensions recipients are 'front line' workers who actually deliver public services - Armed Forces, Policemen, Nurses, Firefighters, Teacher et al.

Other than the armed forces why are any of these truly 'deserving'.

They've all had well above inflation increases over the last decade and no way could they be described as underpaid (one of the original justifications for the 'gold plated' PS pension).

Old_Slaphead

ses6jwg wrote: »

Get a job in the public sector if you are so jealous?

Not that old chestnut - unfortunately there aren't 20 million vacancies otherwise many of us would!

(And anyway wouldn't you be just a bit jealous if you were made to pay for another person's pension especially if someone had nicked most of your's!)

bumpoowee

ses6jwg wrote: »

Get a job in the public sector if you are so jealous?

Unfortunately my experience working with ex-public sector employees has put me off for life, I'd rather remove my liver with a teaspoon than work in an environment with so many incompetent and lazy people again.

marklv

roysterer wrote: »

I would like to know when are Public Sector Pensions going to fall in line with the Private Sector. Private Sector Companies are pulling the plug daily on Final Salary Pension Schemes as well as making it almost impossible to retire early before 65. Companies can no longer finance these expensive schemes. My question is :- If companies can't finance these schemes then how is the TAX PAYER supposed to finance Public Sector Final Salary Pensions. Why don't Public Sector Workers such as Police, Nurses, Local Government, etc have Defined Contribution Pensions and work to 65 like the vast majority of every one else.
Have the Public Sector workers had to double there contributions to get reduced benefits like the private sector? Its now time for them to fall in line with everyone else. Public spending has to be drastically cut due to the mess this country is in. So I think Public Sector Pensions should fall in line with Private Sector for all future benefits.
Do you think this is a fair and reasonable request?

No, it's not fair and it's not reasonable. If 7 out of 10 people want to inject themselves with a fatal virus, and they ask me and others to do the same, because it's 'fair and reasonable', why should I? I bl**dy well won't!!

Public sector pensions are often the only reason why many people carry on working in the public sector at all. Defined contribution pensions are not pensions at all, they are merely investment schemes where the money may or may not grow over a period of years - these schemes are practically worthless. They offer no guarantees and cannot allow an employee any possibility of planning for the future. Imposing such schemes on the public sector will see an exodus of nurses, doctors and other essential workers and probably result in the final collapse of the NHS. There will also be constant strikes and massive disruption in public services. It's a totally daft idea and utterly unacceptable to public sector workers.

Yes, we need to cut costs in the public sector and there are better ways of doing so. As I pointed out earlier in another post, billions can be saved by jettisoning paid overtime and replacing it with time off in lieu. I would also freeze the pay of all public sector workers who earn above a certain level for one year, and in the case of the very highest paid for several years. More billions saved. And yet more money could be saved by reducing the huge amounts of office space that many office based public sector workers have and replacing it with 50% desks only - i.e. 'hot desking' which would need to be booked in advance. These workers should be encouraged to work two days a week from home - perfectly possible in this day and age. Bingo! There you are - billions saved quite easily.

marklv

bumpoowee wrote: »

Unfortunately my experience working with ex-public sector employees has put me off for life, I'd rather remove my liver with a teaspoon than work in an environment with so many incompetent and lazy people again.

They probably had enough of arrogant !!!!!! like you! :rotfl:

marklv

bumpoowee wrote: »

I think we all know where this is going.. public sector workers on board the gravy train will say it isn't fair or reasonable, and everybody else will see the situation for what it is - an unsustainable farce.

Gravy train? What gravy train? Are you on drugs or what? The only gravy train is the one that the bankers and financial dealers have been on, with all their huge and undeserved bonuses. What do these !!!!!! do for the country? Buy and sell financial instruments, that's all. Big deal. They are just glorified gamblers, nothing else. Why don't you complain about these people instead of picking on public sector workers who are keeping this country going?