Public sector pensions nearly over?

roysterer

I would like to know when are Public Sector Pensions going to fall in line with the Private Sector. Private Sector Companies are pulling the plug daily on Final Salary Pension Schemes as well as making it almost impossible to retire early before 65. Companies can no longer finance these expensive schemes. My question is :- If companies can't finance these schemes then how is the TAX PAYER supposed to finance Public Sector Final Salary Pensions. Why don't Public Sector Workers such as Police, Nurses, Local Government, etc have Defined Contribution Pensions and work to 65 like the vast majority of every one else.
Have the Public Sector workers had to double there contributions to get reduced benefits like the private sector? Its now time for them to fall in line with everyone else. Public spending has to be drastically cut due to the mess this country is in. So I think Public Sector Pensions should fall in line with Private Sector for all future benefits.
Do you think this is a fair and reasonable request?

bendix

See what I mean, marklv?

This is a classic example of the growing feeling against your pension? Do you think the OP would have even thought of this a couple of years ago?

Like I said, the mood is changing.

bumpoowee

I think we all know where this is going.. public sector workers on board the gravy train will say it isn't fair or reasonable, and everybody else will see the situation for what it is - an unsustainable farce.

roysterer

I wrote this post before I read the post from DR WU, this just about sums up the situation we find ourselves in today.
All anybody want's is fairness. I don't believe Public Sector Workers are paid lower wages to offset better pension entittlement that argument is absurd as was suggested from a reply to DR WUs post.

bumpoowee

roysterer wrote: »

I wrote this post before I read the post from DR WU, this just about sums up the situation we find ourselves in today.
All anybody want's is fairness. I don't believe Public Sector Workers are paid lower wages to offset better pension entittlement that argument is absurd as was suggested from a reply to DR WUs post.

Yeah.. where I work at the moment they recently made changes to the final salary scheme (to mandate contributions and reduce entitlement) and increased the value of the money purchase scheme. At first somebody quite senior in the company sent an email complaining that no doubt employees on money purchase pensions got higher salaries to offset the difference in schemes. A quick look at the salary policy shows that salaries are on a scale applied accross the board and take no account of pensions.

The whole idea that pensions are make or break in whether people take jobs is a myth.. I've never seen pensions arrangements on a job advert which they would be if they were that crucial.

Goldenyears

roysterer wrote: »

I wrote this post before I read the post from DR WU, this just about sums up the situation we find ourselves in today.
All anybody want's is fairness. I don't believe Public Sector Workers are paid lower wages to offset better pension entittlement that argument is absurd as was suggested from a reply to DR WUs post.

Civil Service salaries at least were at one time reduced to allow for non-contributory pension benefits until about 1980. The reduction was about 8.5-10% from "true money rates" determined centrally for the whole Civil Service in pay negotiation. After the break up into agencies that determined their own rates it's hard to say what the relativities became.

peterg1965

Let's not blame public sector workers in this debate, blame the Govt. There is something like 500,000 more 'state' workers than there were 12 years ago, most, if not all, of whom will be eligible for (and expect) a public sector pension. Add to this GB's raid on private pension tax relief (est @ 100's of £Bn's) which has made the private sector/public sector divide much more palpable and apparent.

Looking in to the future, there is probably not one mainstream politician who has the gumption and foresight to grip this issue.

As an aside, my wife, as a nurse, pays superannuation every month, where does this money actually go? I guess to the Treasury and is subsumed with all other tax revenues, and the Nurses pensions are paid out from central Govt - its a joke. The scheme should be self funding.

It is easy for me to say this, sitting here with a non-contrbutory final salary public sector pension!

bumpoowee

peterg1965 wrote: »

Let's not blame public sector workers in this debate, blame the Govt. There is something like 500,000 more 'state' workers than there were 12 years ago, most, if not all, of whom will be eligible for (and expect) a public sector pension. Add to this GB's raid on private pension tax relief (est @ 100's of £Bn's) which has made the private sector/public sector divide much more palpable and apparent.

Looking in to the future, there is probably not one mainstream politician who has the gumption and foresight to grip this issue.

As an aside, my wife, as a nurse, pays superannuation every month, where does this money actually go? I guess to the Treasury and is subsumed with all other tax revenues, and the Nurses pensions are paid out from central Govt - its a joke. The scheme should be self funding.

It is easy for me to say this, sitting here with a non-contrbutory final salary public sector pension!

I think if there was some sort of acceptance from public sector workers that these schemes are not sustainable and the public/private divide is very unfair then there would be less resentment to the workers themeslves.

What annoys a lot of people is the attitude from many public sector workers that they 'deserve' better than everyone else because they feel the country needs them or that they are somehow superior because they are paid by the government. If many were more humble and accepted they have just got lucky and that the schemes perhaps aren't sustainable long term I doubt there would be the level of resentment we have at the moment. Constant strikes over the issue certainly don't help.

As an example where I used to work there was a section of employees who had been outsourced from the public sector, and who had a final salary pension due to this. Inevitably, this pension was modified to make it more sustainable - ie reduced entitlements/increased contributions. Shortly after this was announced a petition came round my office stating outrage and the comment '<Public Sector Company> workers DESERVE better pensions' - clearly implying that they felt they were better than the rest of us.

peterg1965

bumpoowee wrote: »

I think if there was some sort of acceptance from public sector workers that these schemes are not sustainable and the public/private divide is very unfair then there would be less resentment to the workers themeslves.

What annoys a lot of people is the attitude from many public sector workers that they 'deserve' better than everyone else because they feel the country needs them or that they are somehow superior because they are paid by the government. If many were more humble and accepted they have just got lucky and that the schemes perhaps aren't sustainable long term I doubt there would be the level of resentment we have at the moment. Constant strikes over the issue certainly don't help.

As an example where I used to work there was a section of employees who had been outsourced from the public sector, and who had a final salary pension due to this. Inevitably, this pension was modified to make it more sustainable - ie reduced entitlements/increased contributions. Shortly after this was announced a petition came round my office stating outrage and the comment '<Public Sector Company> workers DESERVE better pensions' - clearly implying that they felt they were better than the rest of us.

I agree entirely. The only truly 'deserving' public sector pensions recipients are 'front line' workers who actually deliver public services - Armed Forces, Policemen, Nurses, Firefighters, Teacher et al. Those that shuffle paper (beauracrats etc), and are working in supporting functions are not deserving - sorry if that sounds a little harsh - but these times call for hard decisions.

CLAPTON

peterg1965 wrote: »

I agree entirely. The only truly 'deserving' public sector pensions recipients are 'front line' workers who actually deliver public services - Armed Forces, Policemen, Nurses, Firefighters, Teacher et al. Those that shuffle paper (beauracrats etc), and are working in supporting functions are not deserving - sorry if that sounds a little harsh - but these times call for hard decisions.

just love it ... only front line staff matter..

so lets sack all those useles people in the following departments and make everyone happy
-NHS payroll department (save a lot on wages)
-supplies (don't really need much.. patients can bring their own equipment)
-lab services ... waste of time
-maintence people for hospital equipment, MRI scanners, heart monitors etc etc etc
-and of course all those useles people who research in cures for diseases could all go to..

lots of third world hospitals just like that.

peterg1965

CLAPTON wrote: »

just love it ... only front line staff matter..

so lets sack all those useles people in the following departments and make everyone happy
-NHS payroll department (save a lot on wages)
-supplies (don't really need much.. patients can bring their own equipment)
-lab services ... waste of time
-maintence people for hospital equipment, MRI scanners, heart monitors etc etc etc
-and of course all those useles people who research in cures for diseases could all go to..

lots of third world hospitals just like that.

Who said anything about sacking - I certainly didn't?? Outsource the lot - all those people you mention. It is attitudes like yours which pervade and are the explaination for nothing ever being done about it.

And your solution is???