DFW running club part 4!! ALL ARE WELCOME!!

RichOneday_2

Well done Red - people are going to think that there's some giant slugs on the prowl in your neighbourhood when they see your 3 mile trail of slime!:p:p


Now this is an interesting thread for those that like to understand the nitty gritty of training rather than the usual nonsense. The main contributors knocking the ideas around are top coaches, including this chap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Canova (although his English struggles he does know what hes talking about!)
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=248888&page=0

becky_rtw

Interesting - I am better off doing the slower longer tempo runs then - which is what I thought - because my stamina over distance is currently weaker than it should be...which will help me more than working on my all out speed...

Seaking of which am off out for a 10k tempo tonight and am trying my first tempo 8 miler next week :eek:

RichOneday_2

becky_rtw wrote: »

Interesting - I am better off doing the slower longer tempo runs then - which is what I thought - because my stamina over distance is currently weaker than it should be...which will help me more than working on my all out speed...

Seaking of which am off out for a 10k tempo tonight and am trying my first tempo 8 miler next week :eek:

Wow, you read quickly!

You're right - and the gist, as always, is that speed and endurance go hand in hand. You have to keep them roughly in balance otherwise you will quickly plateau because you can only develop a limited amount of speed without the associated stamina and can only develop a certain amount of stamina without the associated speed.

Btw Stamina is not the ability to run for ever and ever at slow speed, it is the ability to hold speed for long durations.

becky_rtw

RichOneday wrote: »

Wow, you read quickly!

You're right - and the gist, as always, is that speed and endurance go hand in hand. You have to keep them roughly in balance otherwise you will quickly plateau because you can only develop a limited amount of speed without the associated stamina and can only develop a certain amount of stamina without the associated speed.

Btw Stamina is not the ability to run for ever and ever at slow speed, it is the ability to hold speed for long durations.

Yeah sorry about that :o

Havent read all of it just skimmed some bits - interesting the argument about women runners too :cool:

Agreed which is why I will attempt to run my 8 mile tempo only 15 seconds per mile off my 10k tempo pace - the idea is to run so that it is hard work but not exhausting and push my stamina to a level whereby I can run nearly the same pace for longer - it may not be achieveable straight away but this is the long term plan - its most useful for 10 milers as well to be able to run 8 miles at a sustained pace, then even if you drop off in the last two on race day you shouldnt lose too much as you wont be exhausted :D

The only problem now is whether this will be coming through in time for St Albans - but there are pletny of other races next year for it too , might have to be a summer 10 miler to really put it into practice though as the tempos will get slower once the miles start going up after xmas for the marathon

RichOneday_2

Yep, 'comfortably hard' is the alternative description.

As examples, two of my recent tempo runs have been 5 miles in 32:59 (6:36/mile) and 10K in 41:14 (6:40/mile).

These compare to the same distances being covered under race conditions last Saturday in 30:47 (6:09/mile) and 38:11 (6:08/mile).

So the tempo runs are hard and strong, and you certainly know you've worked at it, but they are by no means flat out.

And, of course, the paces are only a rough guide because you are unlikely to be comparing like with like terrain wise, weather wise etc etc....

becky_rtw

Of course conditions can be variable especially at the moment - tonights will be slower than usual anyway because I am snot ridden so its a nice one to ease into - I'm looking for about 9:15-9:30 tonight, but on a usual day for a 10k tempo I'll be looking at 8:45-9:00...I'll see how it goes

Its interesting he recommends more than one tempo a week :eek: do you think he means a small one (4 miles or so?)? I dont think I could do another speed session a week but I feel for me the interval sessions are really important? Mind you I guess the parkrun is a tempo of sorts (although perhaps a bit too pacey?)...

Questions...

RichOneday_2

becky_rtw wrote: »

Of course conditions can be variable especially at the moment - tonights will be slower than usual anyway because I am snot ridden so its a nice one to ease into - I'm looking for about 9:15-9:30 tonight, but on a usual day for a 10k tempo I'll be looking at 8:45-9:00...I'll see how it goes

Its interesting he recommends more than one tempo a week :eek: do you think he means a small one (4 miles or so?)? I dont think I could do another speed session a week but I feel for me the interval sessions are really important? Mind you I guess the parkrun is a tempo of sorts (although perhaps a bit too pacey?)...

Questions...

3 tempo runs a week are ideal for middle distance runners, 2/3 for long distance runners.

But there are 3 different tempo speed levels, roughly speaking 10K pace, 1/2 Mar pace and Mar pace to play with. Often these all get merged together into one tempo pace at 10 mile race pace.

So, certainly parkruns are tempo runs for me, run at 10K pace, and other runs, even the long Sunday run, can come into the tempo equation if running, say, 16 miles at marathon pace.

As always, there are no hard and fast rules but the more ideas you can absorb the sooner you can suss out what works best for you.:D

becky_rtw

Okay well this is all good stuff to think about for January - I need to start working on the plan anyway...I'd like to keep the parkruns and my tempo run but I would be happy from then on in to drop the intervals and do another tempo...

There are about 15 weeks from Jan til Blackpool so I will need to increase the long runs to 22 over that time...I am wondering then if something like this might make sense:
Mon - 6 mile with 4 miles tempo at 10k pace
Tues - 8 mile tempo at 1/2 pace
Weds - 8 mile recovery
Thurs - 10 mile easy
Friday - rest
Sat - 6.2 mile with 3.1 parkrun
Sunday - long run starting at 16 moving up in blocks of 2 to 22s

Which would start me off at 54.4 (not too far away) and take me up to 60.4 which seems decent enough...

Edit: now I am wondering if the easy on Thurs should include some sections at MP pace?? I'm going for 4 hours which is 9:10 mins/mile and my usual easy is 9:30-10 mins/mile

Hmmm...okay would suitable paces be:
10k pace 8.04 mins/mile
1/2 pace at 8:45 mins/mile
MP pace at 9:10 mins/mile

RichOneday_2

Yep, that looks to have all the main ingedients in there.

That 4 mile at 10k pace is a tough session....but will certainly get you fit.:D

becky_rtw

Excuse us everyone else while we have a plan discussion