University Ruined My Life!

lostinrates

sp1987 wrote: »

I needed to make my own luck as sadly I did not have any contacts in the legal profession, one lot of half arsed work experience would not cut it. .

Another excellent post. I would raise the part quoted though. DH was lucky to have friends and relatives in different areas of law, I agree. However, he also ''networked'' out of this circle. e.g. when appplying to a firm if someone had been to his university he would often email them and make contact, making a contact and asking advice. And yes, this meant reading through hundreds of profiles! This is something any one from any university can do though I do recognise some are more prone to it than others, but generally people like to share experiences. Some univeristies keep records of where their grads have ended up to facilitate this. Employers, it seems, approve of this as if they like they way you work and were prepared for work they see it as a good way to see talent with similar preparation.

DH also joined various groups/assosiations relevent to his areas of interest and went to all the functions for these, making contacts talking to people. He also made contact with a prominant lawyer who had written an artical in one of the broadsheets about the difficulties of finding good trainees and how a trainee should present themselves, this became very useful, the leading lawyer was happy to be approached and though it did not lead to a contract DH crossed paths with him shortly after starting his TC and the lawyer remembered him, and they spoke cordially, much awing the trainees from that lawyer's firm and DH's own supervisor . Networking might sound cheesy, but in essence, its no diferent to somewhere like MSE : people help each other.

Finally, use, really use, the specialist careers advice people and tutors. Tutors told DH his first TC offer was from the wrong firm for him and encouraged him to apply to firms like the one he went to in the end. People in general underused the careers service, who are keen to help. if nothing else they usually write pieces in literature for students looking for TCs and feature the odd student, good to try and be one of those students IMO.

I think what I'm saying is much the as you, one must be proactive in the extreme. If nothing else, this is a quality needed during the career too.

sp1987

lostinrates wrote: »

Another excellent post. I would raise the part quoted though. DH was lucky to have friends and relatives in different areas of law, I agree. However, he also ''networked'' out of this circle. e.g. when appplying to a firm if someone had been to his university he would often email them and make contact, making a contact and asking advice. And yes, this meant reading through hundreds of profiles! This is something any one from any university can do though I do recognise some are more prone to it than others, but generally people like to share experiences. Some univeristies keep records of where their grads have ended up to facilitate this. Employers, it seems, approve of this as if they like they way you work and were prepared for work they see it as a good way to see talent with similar preparation.

DH also joined various groups/assosiations relevent to his areas of interest and went to all the functions for these, making contacts talking to people. He also made contact with a prominant lawyer who had written an artical in one of the broadsheets about the difficulties of finding good trainees and how a trainee should present themselves, this became very useful, the leading lawyer was happy to be approached and though it did not lead to a contract DH crossed paths with him shortly after starting his TC and the lawyer remembered him, and they spoke cordially, much awing the trainees from that lawyer's firm and DH's own supervisor . Networking might sound cheesy, but in essence, its no diferent to somewhere like MSE : people help each other.

Finally, use, really use, the specialist careers advice people and tutors. Tutors told DH his first TC offer was from the wrong firm for him and encouraged him to apply to firms like the one he went to in the end. People in general underused the careers service, who are keen to help. if nothing else they usually write pieces in literature for students looking for TCs and feature the odd student, good to try and be one of those students IMO.

I think what I'm saying is much the as you, one must be proactive in the extreme. If nothing else, this is a quality needed during the career too.

Exactly. Obviously having some contacts in the industry helps, but you cannot say that not having any means that everybody else will do so much better. I could not have done any better having contacts as no contacts got me my first choice place. All this stuff about ''no contacts, low income family, ethnic minority, disability'' can hold you back, if you let it. Of course if parents were partners in a firm I would be hard pushed not to get work experience, but it could work both ways. If you do experience and you were pushed in through a side door, it is spotted and some recruiters may think that you are just following in the family trade, not that you have an interest in your own right, which is unfair on those dedicated individuals. If you have a family able to pay your training outright then it is no skin off your nose if you do not get a job....so undertaking the course may not show genuine commitment (again, harsh on them). If you take out loans to pay you must think it is worth the outlay. I see everything ''unfortunate'' as a fortunate in as much as it proves I must want to do it, I never have to prove that. I'm really happy for people who do have contacts e.g. in the family but if given the opportunity to have some, I would not want any.

vet8

Snoozle wrote: »

Yes, I think the figures are incredibly misleading too, and I feel sorry for anyone who is a teenager now and is having to make this huge decision.

I graduated over twelve years ago, from a respected university, but I have never found that elusive graduate level job. I am not work-shy, or stupid, I didn't leave university expecting to walk into some top level job, but what I did hope was that I could get a foot in the door somewhere that I could gain useful experience and work up from there. But it certainly didn't work out like that for me, and its been a horrible experience. The only thing that keeps me sane is knowing I am not alone - nearly all my friends are graduates, nearly all my colleagues are graduates, but I could count on one hand the number who are in a 'graduate level job'.

At school, we were expected to apply to university, we had entire classes devoted to filling out our UCAS forms - to not apply would have been unthinkable. But the advice that we were given was appalling. When I was applying at eighteen, I just didn't know enough about the world of work (or the world, full stop!) to know what an awful mistake I was making.

I think this says it all. These days virtually every school leaver is expected to go to University, whether or not it is suitable for them.

When I went, many years ago only about 10% of school leavers went. I had a great time and really enjoyed it, but nowadays I find myself advising the children of friends not to apply unless they are either very academic or know what they want to do and it is a job that requires a degree.Three years of work experience and no debt will stand you a better chance of getting a good job than a degree in some pretty useless subject like underwater basket-weaving. :rotfl:

One young man I know had been working for a catering firm during the school holidays and not being very academic he went into catering on leaving school and was assistant manager of a local restaurant at 19. Catering might not seem a very up market career choice, but it is a solid career, people will always eat and he enjoyed it. He then decided to do a degree in catering - it was called event management I think. Now it seems to me that surely 4 year of hands-on experience would have been far more useful. He dropped out after a term, anyway so that was a total waste of time and money.

It worries me that this damned Government keeps saying that if you have a degree you will earn loads more money during your career. Money is great, yes, but since you have to spend more than 40 years working isn't it more important to find a job you enjoy.

dave4545454

vet8 wrote: »

It worries me that this damned Government keeps saying that if you have a degree you will earn loads more money during your career. Money is great, yes, but since you have to spend more than 40 years working isn't it more important to find a job you enjoy.

exactly, it's government bull, i left uni with a first class honours and never managed to find any paid employment. but luckily i get to do the best job in the world and not being paid for it doesn't matter cos it's extremely rewarding in so many other ways.

dave4545454

ploder wrote: »

What gets me angry are the misleading arguments of those supporting tuition fees based on possible earning power. The so called statistics don't tally with my or friends experiences. Take me for example. The only job I could get after uni was one paying under £14k. As you'll appreciate the automatic payback to student loans doesn't kick in until after £15k is being earned. So you're left in a situation were interest is accruing on the loan (albeit at bank of England base rate) but you can't make contributions while trying to live on that sum even with all the available state help so the debt is increasing.

i thought the loan got written off after a certain amount of years of the graduate not earning 15k a year? a lot of people are gonna be in that situation where they never earn over 15k even with a degree.

i was lucky in that i graduated just as grants finished so i didnt have any debts. i actually left uni with a lot of money doing jobs like entertainments manager.

education is a right not a privilege. i hope one day tuition fees gets banned

Hermia

vet8 wrote: »

I think this says it all. These days virtually every school leaver is expected to go to University, whether or not it is suitable for them.

I think this is a huge problem. A lot of schools really seem to look down on any sort of vocational or practical course. At my school only the real thickies were pushed towards these sort of courses. If you were academically bright uni was the only option. Although I have a good degree I wish I had been told about all the options available as I have friends who trained to be plumbers, beauty therapists or caterers and they are earning good money and love their work.

vet8

Hermia wrote: »

I think this is a huge problem. A lot of schools really seem to look down on any sort of vocational or practical course. At my school only the real thickies were pushed towards these sort of courses. If you were academically bright uni was the only option. Although I have a good degree I wish I had been told about all the options available as I have friends who trained to be plumbers, beauty therapists or caterers and they are earning good money and love their work.

Exactly. Where I live it is almost impossible to find a builder, electrician, plumber etc and they can earn huge amounts of money.

I think this Labour government is trying to get away from the idea of working class people doing working class jobs. They think they are too lowly, but people will always need houses, or need to eat or get their car fixed and someone needs to do these jobs. The idea that it is better to have some sort of "proper career" in law, education, politics etc. is nonsense. As long as you are happy in your job it does not matter what you do and money is not the only thing.

As another poster said earlier, there are only so many graduate jobs and not every graduate can get one, but if you have a degree you are not likely to settle for working in a bar or a shop as you expect something better. So where are these workers going to come from?

Snoozle

Hermia wrote: »

I think this is a huge problem. A lot of schools really seem to look down on any sort of vocational or practical course.

So true, my teachers advised against studying any subject that you hadn't already studied at A level (with the exception of medicine or law). So we all trotted off to university to study history, geography, biology etc, all of which are proper, serious academic subjects, but not exactly useful in the world of work. I remember asking to see an outside careers advisor as I was dubious of the advice I received, but he actually said to me 'oh, absolutely, I see no problem in obtaining employment with a history degree' :rotfl:He just didn't mention that it would be employment that I could just as easily obtain with a handful of GCSEs!!

And then the other factor that doesn't get mentioned much is geography - there is next to no graduate training in the area where I live, and family commitments have meant that leaving to look for work further afield is not an option. The few graduate level jobs that there are tend to be filled by people who have maybe gone to London for a few years to build up their work experience and then come back home to settle. I know this is just the way the world works, and it will always be the case, but it does grate a bit to hear companies complain repeatedly that they just can't get experienced staff, when none of them are willing to let people start lower down and build up that experience.

KILL_BILL

i used to work for a number of law firms and it was amazing the number of solicitors who knew jack squat about the area of law particulary the partners

Fee earners particulary in claims work whether it be PI PL EL do relatively the same work as a solicitor except that they cant do the final court hearing.

Hermia

Snoozle wrote: »

So true, my teachers advised against studying any subject that you hadn't already studied at A level (with the exception of medicine or law). So we all trotted off to university to study history, geography, biology etc, all of which are proper, serious academic subjects, but not exactly useful in the world of work. I remember asking to see an outside careers advisor as I was dubious of the advice I received, but he actually said to me 'oh, absolutely, I see no problem in obtaining employment with a history degree' :rotfl:He just didn't mention that it would be employment that I could just as easily obtain with a handful of GCSEs!!

I had to feel a bit sorry for two friends of mine who both got firsts from Oxbridge (one in Theology, one in Classics). They both thought they were going to walk straight into fabulous jobs because of having firsts from Oxbridge. The reactions from employers was, "well done for getting into Oxbridge, but, erm, theology/classics is not exactly, erm, relevant to this organisation. What else have you done?" They both ended up in badly-paid admin jobs.
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