University Ruined My Life!

nodwah

Lokolo wrote: »

That would depend what you apply into.

The job I am going for (and am currently working as a placement student) starts on £27k. I think thats ok for a starting salary for a 22 year old.

That's ok for a 22 year old in law I'm sure but i'm only earning that now at the age of 43 in the NHS after 4 year degree, post grad diploma, MSc and 2 years on the job training before state registration and now we have to constantly jump through more and more CPD hoops just to keep our carppy jobs.

I made a BIG mistake when I studied Biology - I wish I'd done law

brokemedic

PFCGino wrote: »

That said - it's royally screwed me up financially (especially the Masters bit) - but part of that is my fault. I'm not amazing with money anyway, but I still feel that I wouldn't be in half of the debt I'm in now if I was better advised.

The moral of my story is: check check check your options and don't jump the gun. I work hard, so hard it's unreal. I haven't had a good night out in months because I'm either skint or studying (often both), and have made so many cutbacks lately. I'm hoping that promotion is just around the corner though

Join the club.. I thought that's why we were all on here LOL!!

Don't get too disheartened though. It is a long hard struggle but that's what makes it all the more worthwhile when we get there. Perserverance pays off as well. I am finally doing something that I always wanted to do and I am in my 30's. As much as I moan I don't regret it for a single moment.

Good luck with your journey

pebblespop

i am an accountant and working in an office full of graduates. we are all qualified accoutants but i don't have student debt as i didn't go to uni.

accounting degrees aren't worth the paper they are written on unless you want to work as an auditor at the big firms.

Lokolo

nodwah wrote: »

That's ok for a 22 year old in law I'm sure but i'm only earning that now at the age of 43 in the NHS after 4 year degree, post grad diploma, MSc and 2 years on the job training before state registration and now we have to constantly jump through more and more CPD hoops just to keep our carppy jobs.

I made a BIG mistake when I studied Biology - I wish I'd done law

Mines in I.T. not Law. You'd never see me in Law :rotfl:

Glitterari

Well my Masters was not a waste of time and money - it's basically given me a pay rise of at least £11k per year. Yes, I got debt doing it - CC and CDL but I can clear that by next August if I'm real good!

But it's as another poster said it's about making sure you do your research thoroughly before you start it.

BeautyandtheBeast_3

Hi,

im sorry that you feel like uni has ruined your life - but for me and lots of my friends - it has been the making of us - yes i have debt but thats due to my love of vodka!!

I studied a traditional degree and im now earning a fantastic wage and i have a very privileged job which i love and without my degree i would not have achieved my dream.

Uni is great and as long as people carefully research their ideal careers and progression pathways then its the right choice to make.

Also you may lose everything - home, job clothes etc, bu one thing that can never be taken away from you is your education. Be proud of what you have achieved.

sp1987

I feel the complete opposite of how you do. I was advised by firms (some magic circle, some not) that the ILEX was particularly bad for recruitment purposes and for transfer between large firms. I was also pretty solidly questioned on whether or not I'd be able to get a first, and made to feel a little glum that I would probably end up with a 2.1 (which I did). 2.1's are vital in securing the training contracts (unless you were somehow ill during finals and managed a high 2.2), firms select the best candidates and they base that first off on the grades they see. To say your 2.2 was not problematic is sadly mistaken as far as many recruiters are concerned. My single 2.2 in first year was picked on repeatedly in interviews. I know only one person who obtained a TC with a 2.2 degree and as talented as many others I know are, they are disadvantaged even filling in the applications.

I really do not like it when people belittle the qualifications because they did not obtain the result they wanted from them. Who knows, you may fill in application forms badly, that does not make the system itself wrong or you a bad applicant. Doing the LPC without a TC is, I agree, a gamble. I said to myself that if I did not get a TC by the time I graduated I would take a year out to reapply and if I did not get one then, there was something to do with my filling in of the forms, my interviews, etc that made me someone that was not offered a position. I was not going to take this personally, merely save myself the £20,000 in LPC fees and living costs. If they were not going to recruit me in 3 years, regardless of how good/bad a candidate I was, I had little hope beyond that.

I would never have taken the ILEX as I would have found it a great bar on my progression. The only way one is particularly useful is if you have worked within a firm for years and they want to promote you. That means starting at the bottom and working your way up. The transferability of the ILEX as regards future applications to other firms is problematic, whether that should or should not be the case. The top paying jobs want the top candidates and those who have substituted degrees for ILEX for no reason are going to be pulled up on such. School leavers that do not attend university to follow a law career are disadvantaged, unless they have care commitments or children. Mature students are not so greatly disadvantaged, especially as many cannot commit to full-time courses on campus.

lostinrates

sp1987 wrote: »

I feel the complete opposite of how you do. I was advised by firms (some magic circle, some not) that the ILEX was particularly bad for recruitment purposes and for transfer between large firms. I was also pretty solidly questioned on whether or not I'd be able to get a first, and made to feel a little glum that I would probably end up with a 2.1 (which I did). 2.1's are vital in securing the training contracts (unless you were somehow ill during finals and managed a high 2.2), firms select the best candidates and they base that first off on the grades they see. To say your 2.2 was not problematic is sadly mistaken as far as many recruiters are concerned. My single 2.2 in first year was picked on repeatedly in interviews. I know only one person who obtained a TC with a 2.2 degree and as talented as many others I know are, they are disadvantaged even filling in the applications.

I really do not like it when people belittle the qualifications because they did not obtain the result they wanted from them. Who knows, you may fill in application forms badly, that does not make the system itself wrong or you a bad applicant. Doing the LPC without a TC is, I agree, a gamble. I said to myself that if I did not get a TC by the time I graduated I would take a year out to reapply and if I did not get one then, there was something to do with my filling in of the forms, my interviews, etc that made me someone that was not offered a position. I was not going to take this personally, merely save myself the £20,000 in LPC fees and living costs. If they were not going to recruit me in 3 years, regardless of how good/bad a candidate I was, I had little hope beyond that.

I would never have taken the ILEX as I would have found it a great bar on my progression. The only way one is particularly useful is if you have worked within a firm for years and they want to promote you. That means starting at the bottom and working your way up. The transferability of the ILEX as regards future applications to other firms is problematic, whether that should or should not be the case. The top paying jobs want the top candidates and those who have substituted degrees for ILEX for no reason are going to be pulled up on such. School leavers that do not attend university to follow a law career are disadvantaged, unless they have care commitments or children. Mature students are not so greatly disadvantaged, especially as many cannot commit to full-time courses on campus.

I agree with so much of this post. My husband undertook a law conversion having had a few years in his first, reasonably successful, career. He saught advice from friends from university who'd gone this route already and from older friends and family.

It concerns me that OP talks about researching the options throuroughly, which I agree with, and yet is making choices that don't seem right now, to be right for their aims to be '' a top-earning solicitor.'' Many, many firms will not employ as a solicitor anyone who has worked for them in another role (legal exeutive/paralegal), a paralegal friend of mine refers to her office shared with 7 other paralegals as the office of failed ambitions (half jokingly). There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ILEX route (DH infact says often he would have gained more from in the job training than his route, much of his study is non applicable to his work in corporate law) and I do not seek to discredit it or make a judgement of it, BUT, it is considered differently.

We did fund DH's conversion ourelves, but wrere offered a refund when he secured his TC. In the end this was the best decision because DH felt he'd accepted a contract too quickly, and on advice, decided not to accept that TC. That meant, on completion he had no TC secured. He quickly managed to secure a TC at his (then) first choice firm, and in the mean time took a role overseas wihin the firm. So, a fairly non standard route in! Its also worth pointing out his firm are not said to like conversion students rather than law grads, nor mature students, and yet we have discovered that for the right applicants this is less important. He qualifies early next year. The point is, however, he had a first from Oxford, and post grad courses, had demonstrated success, and drive. His flexibility and combination of other applicable skills and languages and a stroke of luck (which was of major importance) saw his application land in front of the right person at the right time.

There have for a long time been too many people for the TCs available. Now, of course, there are also a lot of unemployed NQs and solicitors looking for work too.

OP also doesn't mention vacation schemes (which for many firms are THE key to being offered TC).

There is no doubt that the applications are the most daunting and difficult part of the process IMO. Although the advice was consistantly to draw a shortlist of suitable firms and apply only to those DH applied to considerably more, spending time researching each firm before completing the application.

FWIW I wouldn't worry to much about the buying a house issue OP, you are young to be considering that, and the market is unstable, and life might work out that you were glad for the wait ultimately.

Horace

PFCGino wrote: »

Hi Raquela thanks for your post. I understand everything you are saying, but I have to disagree - the ILEX route is a way of qualifying as a solicitor without a law degree, and once you're in a firm it's easy to do it. That said there's nothing stopping you from studying for the ILEX without a job.

I was applying for vacation placements etc in my second year - in fact I had a few interviews but never made it - it was just too hard.

I am doing my ILEX because I really want to get qualified as quickly as possible - I even want to do some advocacy courses. I study very hard, every day practically, and it just feels like it's all gone to waste.

My Master's degree was a waste of time and money and really put me financially up **** creek. Tbh, I really should've waited but I panicked big style and enrolled literally last minute!! My time at uni was great and it's three years I enjoyed the most - met some good people and enjoyed my course and was the best three years of my life - just can't help feeling a bit like I'm on a wavelength, and Uni was the high I'm now on the low.

Hopefully my firm will accomodate my career wishes, they seem pretty up for progression, so I'll crack on, complete my ILEX in January and eventually do the LPC equivalent to become a solicitor.

ILEX tends to be for people like legal secretaries who want to become paralegals etc. Your mistake was not researching the market before you went to University - law is an over prescribed course and as a result there are limited jobs available.

You are motivated by greed and love of money which isnt good in any profession and remember it was you who made the choice and you who continued on the path thinking that you would become some fantastic lawyer over night - when in fact it takes years of hard graft.

I once worked on an LPC course and the students in my care had already got places to do their articles (yes, despite doing the LPC, you still need to do articles), these sensible people had had the foresight to apply for jobs at the end of their first year at University and long before they embarked upon their LPC.

Your other mistake wasn't pursuing a career in law preferring to go home for holidays, this demonstrates to prospective employers that you have no staying power and therefore are put off - if you had really wanted to be a lawyer you would have moved heaven and high water to become one.

A masters degree doesnt prepare you for the world of work and instead you could have continued and gone into teaching law in a university or college. Instead of bemoaning your lot you need to do something about it and especially clearing your debts which can be done - there are people on here in a much worse situation and they still manage by doing without, cutting back etc, taking extra jobs anything to get themselves out of debt.

We are not here to give careers advice - you can get that from your University's Careers Centre, we had advise on what to do with your debt but we cannot do anything about you being motivated by greed that is something that you have to address yourself. It takes years to become a top lawyer - it isnt something that happens overnight, you take the cruddy jobs and the low pay and you work your way up - its the same with all jobs. You say that your degree is not worth the paper its written on - that's probably true of a lot of degrees these days but what you need to do is to do something that makes you stand out from the crowd and saying woe is me isnt going to cut it I am afraid.

Emily1990_2

I may have misunderstood your post as it was somewhat rambly but why on earth did you take a masters instead of the LPC? You need the LPC to qualify as a solicitor and you need a law degree or GDL to get onto that...your law degree itself is not a ticket to a job as a solicitor!

Edit: Having read the thread thoroughly I think that your poor decisions, failure to research the profession properly and your 2.2 are certainly going to be a massive hindrance. Also you say you 'beefed up' your CV by doing law clinic-while this is very good, legal employers aren't just looking for legal experience.