Obviously, you get what you pay for

Altarf

And round in a circle we go. The difference is only £10 or £20 between Ryanair and BA if you don't/won't play the game. And yes you are right, those who don't/won't play the game would probably be better of with BA.

But for those who are prepared to play the game and stick to the rules, Ryanair is massively cheaper than BA. That is the niche market.

Pollycat

7sefton wrote: »

I take your points Polly and Kingston - I'm honestly not a wind-up merchant, but perhaps didn't express myself clearly or sensitively enough. I'm sorry if I caused any offence.

My main point remains that people should not be blinded by the hype Ryanair etc and people on these boards make about their cheap fares. Even if the budget flight does cost £10 or £20 cheaper than BA or Iberia, for instance, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for you when you consider the hassle and stress it may cause you to jump through all the hoops. A holiday is, after all, supposed to be relaxing from start to finish; and it's better for a business person to arrive at a meeting refreshed and calm than ragged following a LCC nightmare.

Of course there is a market for Ryanair et al, but sometimes I do think it is a slightly more niche market than people seem to think it is.

I think you expressed yourself as clearly and as sensitively as you intended to.

In my own case, I'm certainly not blinded by the Ryanair (or any other carrier) hype.

I check the total cost of travel:
How much does that flight really cost - including all the add-ons?
Does an airline fly from my local airport or do I have to travel 200 miles down the M1? That may mean the difference between putting my pets into kennels for 2 extra days - on top of fuel costs.

How much is the car parking?

How much will it cost me to get from (for example) Girona to the centre of Barcelona versus a flight direct into BCN?

Plus other considerations:
How convenient are the flight times?
What will happen if there is a problem with the flight?
etc etc

Then - and only then - do I decide whether to book.
It may be Ryanair, it may be a competitor. I have no loyalty to any airline.

Stubborn?
Stupid?
Degrading myself?

I don't think so.

Smug? Maybe - because I KNOW then that I've got a bargain.

PolishBigSpender

BA, pleasant experience?

The fact that BA have admitted to colluding with rivals over the whole fuel surcharge issue makes them anything but pleasant in my eyes.

Altarf

All big companies (with the number exceptions you could probably count on the fingers of one hand) are crooks and out to cheat the customer. The only difference is whether they get caught and their cheating publicised.

Who is worse, BA for running a secret cartel with Virgin to cheat customers, or Ryanair who structure their prices to catch out the unwary. At least Michael O'Leary is honestly dishonest (all the facts are there if you choose to read them), unlike Willie Walsh.

richardw

Moonchild wrote: »

Name an obscure aiport that BA flies to when there are better alternatives?

Florence FLR is better than Pisa PSA, Meridiana flies from LGW to FLR and BA from LGW to PSA.

richardw

Moonchild wrote: »

Eh? It's the only airport in Athens?

Yes, I was making the point that some airports that BA flies to are not that convenient.

Shona99

Altarf wrote: »

All big companies (with the number exceptions you could probably count on the fingers of one hand) are crooks and out to cheat the customer. The only difference is whether they get caught and their cheating publicised.

Who is worse, BA for running a secret cartel with Virgin to cheat customers, or Ryanair who structure their prices to catch out the unwary. At least Michael O'Leary is honestly dishonest (all the facts are there if you choose to read them), unlike Willie Walsh.

[FONT=&quot]I agree[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-I don’t know why Ryanair should be singled out-and had exactly the same view of M'OL's "openness".

I seems to me- that extending the bank charges analogy-the core of the debate revolves around freedom to choose and freedom to contract-and I cant help thinking that this freedom to choose was brought about by LCC's in the first place. (In an era of State operated carriers with cosy fare agreements that choice simply didn’t exist. With the choice came the price competition and reduction).

In effect, you pays you money and you makes your choice. However the risk of "something going wrong" and how it is put right is now governed by certain legislation.

That is one aspect that the OP referred to-has perhaps been overlooked. That is how far Euro consumer protection legislation intervenes in the freedom to contract. In some respects that legislation might in part be a response to that freedom to contract.

Airlines are on a level playing field with respect to compliance with the law.

The consumer legislation protection is often confused as just another aspect of "customer service"-( I'm sure all airlines would like to keep this clouded-but Ryanair tend to get most self-generated exposure on this aspect).

Therefore, if we return to the rather good Russian Roulette analogy concerning certain risks involved in air travel-the question might not be whether I am forced to play Russian roulette-but on which occasions that I am forced to play this game-the airline is required to put right the injury.

One suggestion is that it should be necessary to "self-insure" by mixing the good and bad experiences (the proportions may vary) to provide an overall blend of experience. That seems to me one sensible way of looking at the situation.

However, the EC 261/2004 legislation may already underwrite a floor to the worse experiences ( in terms of certain inconvenience and expense) any passenger should suffer. There is clear financial incentive for any airline not to respect that floor.


Again I'm not sure that any airline has clean hands in this respect-and no reason or evidence to base a supposition that Ryanair should be held up for particular criticism.

What Ryanair, or any carrier can not say legitimately is, "look I'm cheap and/or my contract says so and so and thus I don't need to comply with the law".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


The relevant air passenger consumer legislation cannot be overriden by the contract. (Much in the same way that the "legitimacy" of bank charges costs can not be determined solely by reference to the contract).
That consumer protection cannot be overriden just because the fare is "cheap". Some airlines would like to propagate that impression but it isn't correct.[/FONT]

yorksrabbit

Why hate Ryanair?

BBC 1, Panorama.

Tomorrow at 8.30pm.


I don't hate it, but then I've no intention of ever using it.

But I do wonder at the way all the "haters" manage to do Ryanair's PR for it -- to the extent that my licence fee is now going on several £hundred thousandsworth of free publicity for the airline in a BBC TV programme that is only getting air-time because of folks who get so indignant about the airline.

Presumably the Beeb will run a special Panorama on 'Market Stall Traders" to discuss the antipathy felt towards them by people who only shop at Harrod's.

Sad, really.

PolishBigSpender

O'Leary will be laughing his head off at the free publicity that the BBC is giving him. Dispatches on Channel 4 did exactly the same mistake - and it didn't hurt Ryanair one bit.

I suspect many 'haters' are the ones who couldn't afford to fly in the days of protectionism, anyway.

richardw

The BBC should be highlighting the general pitfalls of air travel, irrespetive of where and what airline it is, otherwise it is just free publicity for Ryanair.