Obviously, you get what you pay for

dmg24

Some nicely balanced views on here, even from those that are not avid fans of Ryanair.

I live near EMA, so for me, Ryanair tick all the boxes ... especially now they have introduced a route to Marrakech! Which other airline can get me from my door to Africa in five hours? BA certainly cannot.

Having said that, I do use the full service airlines for trips to the States. Would I fly with Ryanair to the US? Possibly to the East Coast, but no further. But then I do tend to be spoilt when I fly long haul now ...

The OP comes across as one of those people that is happy to criticise budget airlines, but has probably never flown with one!

Shona99

Altarf wrote: »

It is. Ryanair, and that is who we are talking about here, have two sorts of passengers.

People who know the game and and are willing to play the game. They booked a special offer (with an electron card), take hand luggage only (of the right size and weight), have checked in on line, and have no expectation of getting their £5 ticket price back if they decide not to fly. And they know that they are playing "Ryanair Russian Roulette" and if something goes wrong, then they are screwed.

And then there are the people who either don't know the game or know the game and think that they can bend the rules. They moan about the credit card fees, they want to check in luggage, they don't read the rules on size and weight limits, they don't check in on line, etc. And above all they expect BA style customer service when they have paid the price of a bus fare.

I guess you fall into the second category. And actually you are the sort of passenger that Ryanair wants. They don't want people like me, who would never dream of paying Ryanair more than £10 all in for a flight to anywhere, they want people who don't just book the special offers, who want to pay for that checked in bag, etc.

My favourite O'Leary quote is - What part of no refund don't you understand? You are not getting a refund so !!!! off.

And if you think that he is bothered, another quote of his - I'm probably just an obnoxious little !!!!!!!!. Who cares?

Couldnt you apply a similar analysis to bank charges?.

30 years ago when I applied for a bank account with a major clearing bank I was "savvy" enough to read the banks terms and conditions. I realised that the bank could levy charges for certain transactions and I avoided incurring those charges.

I was "savvy" enough to avoid these charges. Others "chose" not to and subsequently felt aggrieved.

Those less savvy bank customers have been subsidising my "free" banking over the years. I could have every incentive to discourage any change to the status quo believing this might retain my "free banking".

Banks presumably didnt want customers like me- they preferred the less savvy ones-if this caused them to generate more revenue/profit.

So why is there all this fuss about bank charges that takes up so much space on the forum? Hasnt this something to do with compliance with the rule of law?

Bank CEOs I dont recall being quite so voluble as Mr O'Leary with respect to bank charges-but in effect weren't they also saying in effect "we dont do refunds"?

bagand96

I'm not sure I see the problem here? If I want to fly somewhere, for whatever reason, I do a comprehensive search of who is the cheapest airline that flies to where I want to go when I want to go. If a few are similar prices I will look at which is most convinient.

Bottom line is book with the airline that offer the best price for your requirements, if prices are similar, the one that is most convinient.

My personal feelings on Ryanair - if they offer the best price, book with them and they'll get you there as well as any other airline. If you can be very flexible and secure the £5/£1/1p flights even better. Mr O'Leary? An absolute press hungry ar*e. 101.37% of what comes out of his mouth is utter rubbish. Keeps him and RYR in the news though.

dmg24

bagand96 wrote: »

I'm not sure I see the problem here? If I want to fly somewhere, for whatever reason, I do a comprehensive search of who is the cheapest airline that flies to where I want to go when I want to go. If a few are similar prices I will look at which is most convinient.

Bottom line is book with the airline that offer the best price for your requirements, if prices are similar, the one that is most convinient.

My personal feelings on Ryanair - if they offer the best price, book with them and they'll get you there as well as any other airline. If you can be very flexible and secure the £5/£1/1p flights even better. Mr O'Leary? An absolute press hungry ar*e. 101.37% of what comes out of his mouth is utter rubbish. Keeps him and RYR in the news though.

That sounds too much like common sense to me!

Pollycat

bagand96 wrote: »

I'm not sure I see the problem here? If I want to fly somewhere, for whatever reason, I do a comprehensive search of who is the cheapest airline that flies to where I want to go when I want to go. If a few are similar prices I will look at which is most convinient.

Bottom line is book with the airline that offer the best price for your requirements, if prices are similar, the one that is most convinient.

My personal feelings on Ryanair - if they offer the best price, book with them and they'll get you there as well as any other airline. If you can be very flexible and secure the £5/£1/1p flights even better. Mr O'Leary? An absolute press hungry ar*e. 101.37% of what comes out of his mouth is utter rubbish. Keeps him and RYR in the news though.

dmg24 wrote: »

That sounds too much like common sense to me!

Exactly, dmg24.

Which is why the OP's 'rant' seems to be a load of tosh.

Altarf

Shona99 wrote: »

Couldnt you apply a similar analysis to bank charges?

It is an interesting argument. I can't see that you could apply it to any of the "up-front" charges, such as the card handling fee, checked luggage, etc, as you have the option of walking away, before agreeing to the contract. However it would be an interesting argument to run on "penalty" charges that all airlines charge after the contract is made. However the difference with the bank charges is that most people learn after being stung once by an airline, but the bank charge people kept on falling for it. So who is going to bother taking a case to court for a few quid in excess luggage or name change fee.

As for the "no refunds" policy, it always amuses me that Ryanair are singled out for this treatment, when just about every airline, train company, coach company, theatre, concert, etc, sell "no refund" tickets. The only difference is that most airlines sell refundable tickets as well as non-refundable tickets. Why don't people have a go at BA being nasty offering people the option of buying "no refund" tickets?

M4RKM

I just flew to NYC on a deeply discount ticket. This gave me no name changes, no time or date changes, and no refunds at all.

This was not with a budget airline, but a standard US carrier. I get to check one bag in for free, for my second bag I must pay money, $50 before, or $55 at the airport (ooh yes, it's more expensive at the airport). I check in either online, or use a kiosk, and then use a bag drop.

This is a full service carrier, and a number of what they do, seem much like what RyanAir were doing about 2 years ago. Airlines are catching up, and working out that they are able to have a charge for things in the past, or do things differently to speed things up!

I for one have not flown RyanAir, because they don't offer me what I want. But, if they offered a return to NYC and it was cheaper than anything else on offer, with all the extras added, I wouldn't hesitate to give them a go, as in this current economic crisis that we're in, every penny saved on a flight, is a penny more I can spend on beer at the destination.

M

poet123

It comes down to common sense, If you have none, then dont fly Ryanair because their T&C's will surely catch you out. If you are a savvy shopper who understands the game, and plays it, you will have no issues, and get cheap flights.

I have flown with numerous carriers (including Ryanair) and always got to my destination paying exactly the amount I understood I was paying upfront.

Chester85

7sefton wrote: »

They are NOT budget when you consider all the 'extra' charges. Even if you try to get round every extra charge, you end up causing yourself more stress than it's worth and do without somewhat essential comforts. Some charges you simply cannot avoid, like the transfer from the airport to the actual city you intend to get to (and which the airline advertises as serving). Not to mention the time wasted jumping through the airline's hoops to grab that elusive £1 fare.

Most of the time the extra charges still make it cheaper than flag/legacy carriers. In a lot of cases the airline has ground arrangements for cheap onward travel and increasingly core tourist airports are actually served direct (generally those on the Med and Southern Europe and most major UK cities are served directly too, so a good domestic offering)

Furthermore, when things go wrong (which in the airline industry is fairly regularly) there is absolutely no backup. They flagrantly disregard EU regulations because they simply don't care. They are degrading their passengers as citizens of the EU and lack common values of fairness and understanding. What amazes me is that the lack of customer support amongst budget carriers is almost universally known about by anyone who travels fairly frequently, and yet you still have the balls to come on boards like this/write to Sunday newspapers complaining and looking for ways to grasp back any compensation/airport tax you can. Then you get even more outraged when they take the p*ss out of you by charging an admin fee that is more than what you are claiming back!

How is it degrading anyone? Budget airlines have revolutionised travel. From Southwest in the US to Air Asia in erm...Asia, they've opened up markets that flag carriers were charging extortionate amounts for. Yes the flag carriers have gotten cheaper but why? Because the budget airlines have forced them to. BA and Aer Lingus for years were more than happy to charge a couple of hundred quid to fly between the UK mainland and Ireland. I doubt anyone pays more than £40 return these days and thats at the top line price. Those awful budget airlines!:rolleyes:

I've suffered way more delays and cancellations with BA and charter airlines than budget airlines, but hey...BA gave me a voucher that was enough for a thimble of coke and a plain slice of toast in the airport. Marvellous service :rolleyes:

As for taxes and charges...fuel supplements? Which airline was price fixing? Ryanair? Easyjet? FlyBe? Air Berlin? Or erm....the legacy carriers?! Oh yes...

And you know what, there is a way to avoid all this agro. Simply choose to fly with a traditional flag carrier. They usually have far less hidden charges, make flying easier for you, and actually treat you like a valued customer. Plus when things go wrong, generally you will be listened to and helped as best as possible. Of course in the past perhaps some major airlines were greedy and charged too much for too little. The budget airlines did scare the flag carriers and they have made changes in response. Lufthansa fly to Munich from Manchester for £49 one way all in. Air France fly Manchester to Paris cheaper than easyJet flights from the more provincial and less pleasant Liverpool airport. Now, all charges considered, I regularly find that some flag carriers are cheaper than Ryanair et al.

See my argument above. For years legacy carriers have screwed us all over the shop from price fixing to fuel charges to a couple of hundred quid so you can happily eat a packet of free nuts and a nasty red wine. You think the flag carriers value you? No, they took you all for granted for years happily screwing us all sideways and now have the standard issue argument 'Erm...we're nice and not Irish and we'll erm...not play a song when we land, please love us again'

Anyone thinking that AirFrance KLM and BA are some godly wonders of customer service clearly doesn't fly with these airlines. When the going gets tough, the airline reps disappear quicker than a Ryanair plane on a 10 minute turnaround. From experience enough BA in particular are still trading off a name that is long dying in places.

And the flag and legacy carriers have gloriously abandoned most regional airports forcing you through the hubs (a.ka.a Heathrow, Amsterdam or Paris CDG) but hey...free drinks and nuts! Marvellous!

Sadly, some people seem too stuborn to acknowledge this, or too stupid to realise that they are being taken advantage of by budget airlines.

Or use airports being served by them and have no other choice. Or perhaps they read the website and terms of carriage or are grown ups who are able to make choices for themselves.

It's nothing to do with being stubborn, its the new in vogue to attack the budget airlines, who said snobbery was dead?

Pollycat

poet123 wrote: »

It comes down to common sense, If you have none, then dont fly Ryanair because their T&C's will surely catch you out. If you are a savvy shopper who understands the game, and plays it, you will have no issues, and get cheap flights.

I have flown with numerous carriers (including Ryanair) and always got to my destination paying exactly the amount I understood I was paying upfront.

Exactly.

And of course when flying with a budget carrier you DO play the odds that something won't go wrong, but it's up to each individual to make that call when deciding who to book with - not a MSE member who obviously has an axe to grind about budget carriers and feels it necessary to exhort other MSE-ers to fly with traditional flag carriers - and to label people 'stubborn' or 'stupid' if it suits them to continue to fly with budget airlines. :rolleyes: