House Ownership

McKneff

Everything still depends on whether the house is owned ss
joint tennants or tenants in common.
If joint tenants then as someone else pointed out Mothers half will automatically go to the OP when mother expires no matter what the will says.

IMO if its joint tenants i would just leave things as they are, the other half will come to you and then
you can give your sons what you want to give him. That'll teach the sponging sod.

The law always over rides wills.

Nixxx

Hmmmm, sorry to take a different angle on this but I read this as more of a moral issue than a financial one.

What may be financially sensible may not be seen as the "fair" solution. Your mum clearly feels the need to make sure this son isn't "left out" so i think its best to tread carefully.

If you would rather be out of the entire situation then why not just give your half of the house to your son and be done with it.

BitterAndTwisted

While he and his girlfriend are living there rent-free and contributing nothing towards the upkeep, even in labour? A house is a liability as well as an asset and assets need to be looked after. I fear that if OP should make his half-share of the house over to his son, if that's possible, no good will come of it. She's outnumbered in her own home for a start, and who knows what what they might consider doing once he owns half

Fire_Fox

boybig wrote: »

I think the issue here is that son is living in the house and has no where else to go.

Of course he does. He is not going to have to move the day Granny dies, he will have time to find rental accommodation or indeed buy his own place just like anyone else. Owning a third of the house doesn't automatically mean he has somewhere to go, as other people will want to utilise their two thirds, whether by letting or selling the house. Is Granny worried you will evict the son overnight? If so why don't you assure her you will be reasonable.

DVardysShadow

boybig wrote: »

Thank you DVardysShadow.

At the end of the day this is what I want:

when Mum dies for the sale of the house to go through smoothly and quickly and then the money to be divided three ways, third to self and third to each of my sons.

My share of the house I just want the money when it is sold.

This sounds very mercenary but I do not want to own half a house and be liable to up-keep etc., while son is living there - do not want the hassle of having to evict son. Of course this may not happen. However, son is living in house and does not have anywhere else to live - I live 400 miles away and OH does not want him here.

Thanks for the clarification. You need to split 2 issues here

• Inheritance and apportionment of shares
• Turning the inheritance into cash

On inheritance and apportionment of shares, do take account of BitterAndTwisted in post #7. As your mother gets older, there is more and more scope for her to be talked into giving it all to sponging son, which could leave son No2 in the cold. So it is absolutely not a good idea to rely on your mother's will to do the distribution and sign over the house to her - the will can be changed at any time after that.

Take account of what McKneff says in post #22. If it is Joint Tenants, it all goes to you, so you can distribute or not as you see fit. If it is Tenants in Common, then your mother' share is hers to distribute as she sees fit and a good argument to avoid is who she leaves it to. Even if at the end of the day she leaves it all to son No1, that would be her choice, but ultimately you could compensate by giving your half to son No2 if you are not necessarily too concerned about your own share, provided that the sons get fair shares.

Don't go drawing too much attention to the matter. If it is Joint Tenants, this is fine, if it is Tenants in Common, you will have a problem explaining why to change it - which will cause the arguments you want to avoid. So, if you do follow up on this and find out, let the sleeping dogs lie - the only benefit is to help you think through dealing with the situation later.

On turning the inheritance to cash, you have a more difficult problem. It is temting to think that you can solve the whole thing now by signing over the house to your mother and using her will to acheive the distribution - but as mentioned above, this can be thwarted if your mother is influenced by son No1, so it may be better to retain control of the half of the property you own at the expense of postponing the problem of realising the assets with son No1 in residence. Once it is time to realise assets, if it is Joint Tenants, you can force a change to Tenants in Common [AIUI] and from there force a sale - a good reason to let that aspect lie dormant for now is that it could work against you at the moment. So, in summary, I am suggesting to leave the aspect of realisation of assets until later.

Finally, of course, unless the manner of your mother's demise is already evident, you never know what will come up. Care home and fees? This could make a lot of what you are thinking through redundant, so again, no point in letting an argument develop, if it can be postponed.

I hope this helps. If any of it is useful and your way forward relies on any of the advice in this post, please do check it out with a professional first.

boybig

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to all who have contributed to this thread. I am feeling much calmer about the situation now. I will leave things to lie and be led by what Mum said but will of course take into account what has been said here. Any paperwork or changes that Mum wants to make I will take to my own solicitor.

Thank you.

DVardysShadow

One more thing. When it comes to disposing of assets, if son No1 is in residence, it might be a difficult job to move him out in order to put the house on the market as he could be viewed as having rights. But it may be easier to distribute ownership of the house, then via Tenants in Common to force a sale, as the rights over a co-owner may be stronger than rights over an occupier. You need to check this out.

boybig

I have today received the following paperwork. Mum sent it to me also enclosing a stamped addressed envelope back to herself. The document she has sent is on a plain piece of paper (no letterhead).

I use the term "Mum's property" which means the property in which I have the share and where she lives. This is what it says:

To: (my name)

(address of Mum's property)

I hereby give you notice of my intention to sever as from this day the joint tenancy in equity of and in the property (address of Mum's property) registered at HM Land Registry under Title Number XXX now held by you and me as joint tenants both at law and in equity so that the said property shall henceforth belong to you and me in equal shares.

Date this (mum has filled in the date in her handwriting) day of (again Mum has filled in month in her handwriting 2009


Received a notice of which the above is a duplicate
Dated day of 2009




____________________________
(my name)

Any observations please? The only name mentioned on this document is mine.

boybig

Just bumping - any thoughts please?

luiccia

boybig wrote: »

Any observations please?

It just confirms that the ownership was originally as joint tenants but your mother has decided to sever the tenancy. You will now own the property as tenants in common with 50% each.