House Ownership

boybig

I posted this on the Debt Free wannabe board and was advised to post here:

Hi - not sure if this is the right place to post. I would be grateful for any advice on the following:

I have a son aged 24 from my first marriage (wife now dead). Son lives with my Mum in her house which is jointly owned by Mum and myself. They live over 400 miles away together with son's girlfriend. I have my own house which I share with OH and another son aged 12 (son with present OH).

Mum now wants to change her will and leave one third of the house to me, one third to each of the sons. This would entail me signing new agreements and relinquishing the half I own.

My relationship with son who lives with Mum has completely broken down. I still have relationship with Mum. Son does not work and does nothing around the house i.e. simply DIY for Mum. Mum is "blinkered" and does not want son "left out".

What is the best way around this situation? What is the cheapest way in terms of capital gains tax and inheritance tax (of which I have no knowledge whatsover).

1. Do I get Mum to will her half of house to me. Then do I sign a legal agreement saying that on her death house will be sold and all the estate will be divided equally three ways?

2. Do I relinquish my half of house and sign new agreements so that ownership is split three ways?

3. What are impliactions of son already living in house - to my knowledge he and his girlfriend pay no rent whatsover. Does girlfriend have any rights?

Any implications with any of those on inheritance tax or capital gains tax?

I have owned half of the house for over 15 years.

Will I be liable for any repairs, unpaid council tax etc re. son who does not work and is living at house?

I'm sorry for long post and its a bit complicated to say the least.

At the end of the day I need advice on the easiest solution and cheapest solution for those left after Mum has passed away.

I will be contacting a solicitor in any event but would like to be armed with some slight knowedge and anyone's else' advice or opinion.

Many thanks in advance.

poppysarah

What is the result she wants?
Does she not want the son you don't get on with anymore to be evicted when she goes? Or does she want to make every feel included?

You've got to look at how likely it is it could be seen as her giving away the asset of half a house to avoid paying for any care she may need in the future as well.

How do you feel about giving up the rights to half a house I assume you've paid into?

Ask her what she actually wants to happen ... whether it's that it got sold and everyone gets some money (which would then leave the son that lives there homeless albeit with 1/3 house value in his pocket)

BitterAndTwisted

boybig wrote: »

Mum now wants to change her will and leave one third of the house to me, one third to each of the sons. This would entail me signing new agreements and relinquishing the half I own. Your Mum is free to do what she wants with her half share of the house but obviously cannot control what you do with yours. The only way I can see of you "relinquishing" your share is by your mother buying it from you. Then she can do what she likes with it.

What is the best way around this situation? What is the cheapest way in terms of capital gains tax and inheritance tax (of which I have no knowledge whatsover).

1. Do I get Mum to will her half of house to me. Then do I sign a legal agreement saying that on her death house will be sold and all the estate will be divided equally three ways? Why would you be happy gifting a third share of a house to some useless article who can't even be bothered to do DIY on a home which he lives in with his gran?

2. Do I relinquish my half of house and sign new agreements so that ownership is split three ways? I really don't think it's possible to "sign an agreement", money needs to change hands.

3. What are impliactions of son already living in house - to my knowledge he and his girlfriend pay no rent whatsover. Does girlfriend have any rights? Do you mean rights once Granny departs or now?

Any implications with any of those on inheritance tax or capital gains tax?

I have owned half of the house for over 15 years.

Will I be liable for any repairs, unpaid council tax etc re. son who does not work and is living at house? Yes, you are the co-owner even if you don't live there.

I'm sorry for long post and its a bit complicated to say the least.

At the end of the day I need advice on the easiest solution and cheapest solution for those left after Mum has passed away.

I will be contacting a solicitor in any event but would like to be armed with some slight knowedge and anyone's else' advice or opinion.

Many thanks in advance.

Take legal advice and don't feel you need to be coerced into making any decisions which you don't want to. I'd be tempted to not make any arrangements which benefit your lazy bum of a son and his freeloading leach of a girlfriend in the short-term but blood is thicker than water, I've heard.

Sorry I can't help you with the Inheritance Tax or Capital Gains implications. Is the house very valuable?

boybig

House value is approx £250K.

Regarding 3. above I mean rights once granny departs.

poppysarah

Could he say he was a "dependent"? ie: relies on her for money and support? Doesn't that alter whether he has rights? It's all quite complicated and perhaps it's not always better to argue about it when people are alive still.

boybig

I agree when you say about not arguing - Mum has actually raised this point (it has been in the back of my mind for a long time but I never said anything). I just want to get this sorted out once and for all and for Mum to feel that the best thing is being done.

Yes - son could certainly say he was dependent.

To be honest I'm just wondering about saying that Mum can have my half back again - could I gift it? Then she would be happy that son would have a home - I wouldn;'t be liable.

I will then leave my house and estate to my other son.

You are right - writing it down like this is horrible - its an awful situation and is causing a lot of stress.

At the end of the day I need to see a solicitor to sort out all the ramifications.

BitterAndTwisted

Yes, you do and it sounds to me like useless, parasite son might have come up with this crackpot scheme in the first place. In your place I wouldn't do anything to encourage him to believe he can sit on his ar*se and wait for his third-share of his inheritance, especially once your mum becomes frail and exploitable.

DVardysShadow

boybig wrote: »

I posted this on the Debt Free wannabe board and was advised to post here:

Hi - not sure if this is the right place to post. I would be grateful for any advice on the following:

I have a son aged 24 from my first marriage (wife now dead). Son lives with my Mum in her house which is jointly owned by Mum and myself. They live over 400 miles away together with son's girlfriend. I have my own house which I share with OH and another son aged 12 (son with present OH).

Mum now wants to change her will and leave one third of the house to me, one third to each of the sons. This would entail me signing new agreements and relinquishing the half I own.

My relationship with son who lives with Mum has completely broken down. I still have relationship with Mum. Son does not work and does nothing around the house i.e. simply DIY for Mum. Mum is "blinkered" and does not want son "left out".

What is the best way around this situation? What is the cheapest way in terms of capital gains tax and inheritance tax (of which I have no knowledge whatsover).

There is no 'best way', because we don't know what you want to achieve. This is the hard question which only you can answer. It may be obvious to you from your understanding of the situation, but to anyone else, it is not obvious.

1. Do I get Mum to will her half of house to me. Then do I sign a legal agreement saying that on her death house will be sold and all the estate will be divided equally three ways?

2. Do I relinquish my half of house and sign new agreements so that ownership is split three ways?

You could do all of these things, but it is too early to think about them - until you set out what you want to achieve - what you have put above is just how to do something, not what you want to achieve.

3. What are impliactions of son already living in house - to my knowledge he and his girlfriend pay no rent whatsover. Does girlfriend have any rights?

Any implications with any of those on inheritance tax or capital gains tax?

I have owned half of the house for over 15 years.

Will I be liable for any repairs, unpaid council tax etc re. son who does not work and is living at house?

I'm sorry for long post and its a bit complicated to say the least.

All good questions, but for later.

At the end of the day I need advice on the easiest solution and cheapest solution for those left after Mum has passed away.

I will be contacting a solicitor in any event but would like to be armed with some slight knowedge and anyone's else' advice or opinion.

Before you go to a solicitor, decide what you want to achieve. Sorry to keep on at this point, but the solicitor is going to ask you and charge £200/hour while you sit there and try and work it out - when possibly once you have worked out the answer to my question, you just need to dig your heels in and do very little.

AFAICS, your mother is trying to will away you share of the house. What do you want to happen to your share of the house. Never mind your mother's half, that is her business - perhaps she should be the one to see a solicitor.

boybig

Thank you DVardysShadow.

At the end of the day this is what I want:

when Mum dies for the sale of the house to go through smoothly and quickly and then the money to be divided three ways, third to self and third to each of my sons.

My share of the house I just want the money when it is sold.

This sounds very mercenary but I do not want to own half a house and be liable to up-keep etc., while son is living there - do not want the hassle of having to evict son. Of course this may not happen. However, son is living in house and does not have anywhere else to live - I live 400 miles away and OH does not want him here.

bryanb

Not sure how you own half- Joint tenants or tenants in common? There is a world of difference. One way it's 50/50 the other way it's jointly owning 100%

boybig

I think the issue here is that son is living in the house and has no where else to go.