Virgin Atlantic nightmare for disabled traveller

Penny-Pincher!!

baza52 wrote: »

Ask the cabin crew for what?
The flight was full and the cabin crew will not help with personal needs.

I know they don't help with personal needs. I meant did you ask if there were other or more suitable seats? Maybe someone would have exchanged if they were fully aware of your needs.

baza52

The flight was FULL. the only other seats would have been the jump seats that the crew use and passengers are not allowed to use these for the descent/landing for saftey reasons.

Its possible someone may have moved but the chances of 2 people giving up a bulkhead with extra legroom for a normal economy seat for a 10 hour flight was next to none.
Im sure (but didnt ask) that the cabin crew would have suggested contacting special assistance prior to flying if disability is an issue.

PolishBigSpender

Actually, the cabin crew may have directed the people occupying the bulkhead seats to move. As you didn't bring it to their attention at the time, it's partially your fault.

baza52

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Actually, the cabin crew may have directed the people occupying the bulkhead seats to move. As you didn't bring it to their attention at the time, it's partially your fault.

I did bring it to the attention of the check-in agent.
Cabin crew are not in a position to order passengers to move seats.
Once a seat is allocated any passenger can refuse to move.
How was it my fault?

what would you have done in my position?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave you ever been in my position?

PolishBigSpender

baza52 wrote: »

I did bring it to the attention of the check-in agent.
Cabin crew are not in a position to order passengers to move seats.
Once a seat is allocated any passenger can refuse to move.
How was it my fault?

Cabin crew can move who they like for operational reasons. The fact that a seat might be allocated to a certain passenger means nothing - there may very well be a good reason to move someone. For instance, if someone seated in an exit row isn't suitable, they can be moved - indeed, this is entirely up to the discretion of the cabin crew and ultimately the pilot. Remeber on board aeroplanes, the Captain has complete control - and if an order from him (via the cabin crew) comes for you to exchange your seat, then you can either comply or face the consequences.

The fact that you chose not to have a quiet word upon boarding is entirely your responsibility - but if you had done, you may very well have found a sympathetic cabin crew member who would have ordered people to move in order to accomodate the disabled traveller.

baza52

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Cabin crew can move who they like for operational reasons. The fact that a seat might be allocated to a certain passenger means nothing - there may very well be a good reason to move someone. For instance, if someone seated in an exit row isn't suitable, they can be moved - indeed, this is entirely up to the discretion of the cabin crew and ultimately the pilot. Remeber on board aeroplanes, the Captain has complete control - and if an order from him (via the cabin crew) comes for you to exchange your seat, then you can either comply or face the consequences.

The fact that you chose not to have a quiet word upon boarding is entirely your responsibility - but if you had done, you may very well have found a sympathetic cabin crew member who would have ordered people to move in order to accomodate the disabled traveller.

Cabin crew have no right to "order" anyone to do anything unless they are breaking the law.
We had spoken with special assistance and that should have been enough.

Do you think its fair my wife should have told anyone available what her personal problems were?
Would YOU be telling any stranger you had a stoma and any other medical conditions?

Seats are allocated at checkin often to distribute weight in the cabin. do you have any t&c's or laws you can show me that prove cabin crew can do this?

PolishBigSpender

baza52 wrote: »

Cabin crew have no right to "order" anyone to do anything unless they are breaking the law.

Wrong. You can argue this all you like, but a basic fact is that on board an aeroplane, the Captain has the final say. If the cabin crew are thus authorised to act by the Captain, then they can order you to do what they like. This is a simple part of aviation safety - and particuarly since 9/11, it might not be the best idea to argue with cabin crew.

For example, let's say 9 people weighing 120 kilos each end up on the front row. The plane is lightly loaded, and for balance reasons, the weight must be redistributed. The tickets may be allocated to certain seats, but cabin crew can and will tell you to move.

Anyway, if you want to discuss 'the law' - refusing to follow instructions or orders from the cabin crew is seen as a criminal offence.

We had spoken with special assistance and that should have been enough.

Yes, but sometimes, these things slip through. A quiet word with the gate staff may have been enough to alter things - but you didn't bother, did you?

Do you think its fair my wife should have told anyone available what her personal problems were? Would YOU be telling any stranger you had a stoma and any other medical conditions?

Why not? If you wanted special treatment, I'd expect you to be able to justify why you need it. If you didn't want to tell people, it's your choice - but equally so, you can't expect cabin crew to be able to sort out problems if they're unaware of them.

Seats are allocated at checkin often to distribute weight in the cabin. do you have any t&c's or laws you can show me that prove cabin crew can do this?

You were flying to America, so you would have been bound by the Federal Aviation Regulations. I refer you to part 91.3 -

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGFAR.NSF/0/e63bbedc3044a110852566cf00612076!OpenDocument

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

Therefore, the Captain (through his flight attendants) can order people to do as he wishes, as the final authority in regards to the operation of the aircraft.

I still fail to understand why you didn't give the cabin crew the chance to solve the situation. You might find that one of them would have had a discreet word in the ear of a couple of passengers and persuaded them to move without having to order them to do so.

Personally, I suspect that any complaint under the various disability acts won't be upheld due to your own inability to give the cabin crew a chance to correct the situation.

baza52

lo

So ive got the hump with Virgin when it was the drivers fault all along.

will remind the wife to wear a big sign round her neck next time warning people that her illeostomy bag may split and spew uncompacted poo round the cabin.

lets hope your other half never finds themself in the same situation cos your not gonna be much help are ya?

baza52

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Wrong. You can argue this all you like,

You were flying to America, so you would have been bound by the Federal Aviation Regulations. I refer you to part 91.3 -

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGFAR.NSF/0/e63bbedc3044a110852566cf00612076!OpenDocument

Therefore, the Captain (through his flight attendants) can order people to do as he wishes, as the final authority in regards to the operation of the aircraft.

Do you think the pilot is worried over seat allocations?

Would it interfere with the operation of the aircraft?

Can you honestly see any pilot holding a full 747 to resolve a seat problem?

FlameCloud

baza52 wrote: »

Do you think the pilot is worried over seat allocations?

Would it interfere with the operation of the aircraft?

Can you honestly see any pilot holding a full 747 to resolve a seat problem?

Given you never asked, how do you know?