Can I dispute a bank charge with A&L?

oldfella

Yes, I think I misinterpreted that phrase. Apologies, oldfella.

---

apology not needed, I could have worded it more clearly

I believe Barclays are reasonable as they do the calculation at 18.30 (on the day the money is going out and coming in), after all transactions for that day. I suspect there are banks which do it at 0000 and take debits before credits.

more sneaky ways for them to extract cash from you.

Mike

YorkshireBoy

masonic wrote:

So, if credits are normally applied before debits...

I'm not so sure they are though - certainly in my experience with Yorkshire Bank.

Only a couple of weeks ago, I BACS transferred £10K into my current account from an account with another institution. Once I saw it was going to 'hit' my current account (when they ran the processing at 23:00), I set up 2 x £5K transfers out for the following day (in effect, 1 hour later). When I then looked at my transaction history I saw that they had applied the DR's before the CR transaction. This order was the same on my hard copy statement received a week or so later.

Although technically (by virtue of the transaction order displayed) overdrawn, I was not charged simply because, as I said earlier, the payment into my account was a direct credit and already 'in the system'.

...are the occasions where people have run into troubles, say, setting up automated transfers between savings accounts via a current account (without leaving a days 'buffer') just down to bad luck in that their transactions were processed out of the normal order?

Not bad luck IMO. More likely that they didn't read/understand their account T&C's. For example, A&L say that...

If you're moving money between your Alliance & Leicester current accounts, provided you instruct us early enough in the day, the funds will be in your destination account by the next working day, otherwise it'll be the day after.

So, what do they mean by "early enough in the day"? Well, to answer that question you'd need to know what time they ran the processing task, or do a couple of trial experimental runs.

Having said all that, you could adopt the policy that 'better 2 days early, than 1 day late'!

masonic

YorkshireBoy wrote:

When I then looked at my transaction history I saw that they had applied the DR's before the CR transaction. This order was the same on my hard copy statement received a week or so later.

I've been in similar situations with A&L. I recently moved all the money I previously had at ICICI to my Online Saver. The money was showing in my Premier direct account on the 7th, so I transferred it across there and then. The next day, the debit was listed before the credit, despite it having been applied to my account after the credit was already listed and showing up in the available balance.

Even though I've seen it several times now, it does give me a bit of a shock when I see my running balance slip several thousand pounds into the red purely because of the order A&L choose to list transactions.

Lois_Lane

MarkyMarkD wrote:

It is NOT true that "A&L have a policy of paying debits before credits". It IS true that the terms of A&L accounts (and most other bank accounts) require you to have funds in the account at the close of the previous working day to fund any payments out of the account.

Therefore transferring money in on the day a payment is due out is TOO LATE.

You may have missed my point that the money was being transferred between accounts within A&L - so there was no need for them to check whether the money was going to clear or not, they already had it in their clutches!

I also bank with First Direct who do not follow this ridiculous (IMO) rule, and I have frequently made deposits to cover outgoing payments on the same day.

LL

dchurch24

Motor_Mouth wrote:

I've gone through this site, too. It's fantastic. I challenged First Direct last month and just received a cheque for £376 for charges dating back to Jan 2001.

If you're reading this, Consumer Action Group web founders, you all deserve a round of applause.

Thank you.

One other point, in addition to clearing debits before credits, they also pay DD's SO's etc... in order of highest first.

E.g. 3 DDs, 1 £85, 1 £45, 1 £45. Balance £100. They would pay the £85 first, so that the 2 £45s would bounce. If it were the other way around, then only 1 would bounce and you would only be charged once. Not twice, which is the way it it currently set up at the moment.

Still think it's all by chance? - or a wily way to fleece money out of customers?

dchurch24

masonic wrote:

Surely not, eh? Next you'll be telling us you read them before opening your account to make sure you understood how everything worked.

...and found the unlawful clauses no doubt, so presumably you'd choose to bank somewhere else.

....but hang on....don't they ALL have these clauses in?

masonic

dchurch24 wrote:

...and found the unlawful clauses no doubt, so presumably you'd choose to bank somewhere else.

....but hang on....don't they ALL have these clauses in?

Unlawful or not, surely it's better to know about them so that you can try and avoid falling victim to them?

MarkyMarkD

Lois_Lane wrote:

You may have missed my point that the money was being transferred between accounts within A&L - so there was no need for them to check whether the money was going to clear or not, they already had it in their clutches!

I also bank with First Direct who do not follow this ridiculous (IMO) rule, and I have frequently made deposits to cover outgoing payments on the same day.

LL

I didn't mention "checking whether the money was going to clear". I really don't know how A&L process internal transfers, but I suspect that the problem is that they process ALL transfers between internal accounts as part of one batch.

If they processed transfers current account > savings accounts first thing overnight, they would leave accounts overdrawn if they were waiting for a credit coming in overnight (like your pay).

If they processed transfers savings account > current account first thing, that'd be great.

But if they process transfers in and out, together, as one big batch, they have to choose one set of timings and the first set are going to annoy fewer people - and the people who are annoyed are those who aren't complying with the account Ts & Cs.

It's not hard to make sure that your internal transfer occurs the day before.

And it's not hard to get an authorised overdraft limit to reduce the likelihood of this problem prevailing.

Lois_Lane

MarkyMarkD wrote:

It's not hard to make sure that your internal transfer occurs the day before.

...so the bank can make some interest on the overnight money markets no doubt...

And it's not hard to get an authorised overdraft limit to reduce the likelihood of this problem prevailing.

....more money in their pockets and not in mine....

dchurch24

masonic wrote:

Unlawful or not, surely it's better to know about them so that you can try and avoid falling victim to them?

I'm pretty sure most people DO know about the charges.

Personally, I don't think that there is anyone that desputes that, or indeed, actually LIKES being charged. The reasons for being charged are most often beyond the control of the person incurring them.

I know that ALL banks make these charges, and sometimes their charges are unavoidable (not least because of the little tricks they use to make sure of it).

Knowing that a bank if going to impose them doesn't make them right OR lawful.