Can I dispute a bank charge with A&L?

Motor_Mouth

robert_harper_2000 wrote:

I helped my brother and by using https://www.consumeractiongroup.com and reading everything I have got all my well his fines back along with 8% interest I charged them! haha

It is really easy and I did it and succesfully it can be done. infact no-one has lost!

Check it out everyone is really helpful

I've gone through this site, too. It's fantastic. I challenged First Direct last month and just received a cheque for £376 for charges dating back to Jan 2001.

If you're reading this, Consumer Action Group web founders, you all deserve a round of applause.

MarkyMarkD

Lois_Lane wrote:

A&L have a policy of paying debits before clearing credits. I discovered this when I set up a one off payment to go out on a particular date, and also arranged to transfer money from my A&L savings account into my current account on the same day, to cover the one off payment.

The next time I checked my statement I had a £25 charge on it for being overdrawn even though there wasn't a negative amount anywhere on the sheet! When I rang they told me that because of their practice of making payments first, I had overdrawn...!

As you can imagine, I was well p'd off with that, and as I was a new customer they agreed to refund the charge 'on this occasion' and said that for future reference I should make the transfer the day before!

When I opened the account I opted not to have an overdraft as I can manage my finances well enough not to need one, but since the above happened I decided I'd have one to protect me from A&L's ineptitude.

LL

It is NOT true that "A&L have a policy of paying debits before credits". It IS true that the terms of A&L accounts (and most other bank accounts) require you to have funds in the account at the close of the previous working day to fund any payments out of the account.

Therefore transferring money in on the day a payment is due out is TOO LATE.

Lois_Lane

MarkyMarkD wrote:

It is NOT true that "A&L have a policy of paying debits before credits". It IS true that the terms of A&L accounts (and most other bank accounts) require you to have funds in the account at the close of the previous working day to fund any payments out of the account.

Therefore transferring money in on the day a payment is due out is TOO LATE.

That may be what it says in the T&Cs but it isn't what the customer service person told me, and I still think its a pile of poo, and just another wily method for banks to make money out of their customers.

But thank you for putting me right. (Work for A&L by any chance?)

MarkyMarkD

It's not "just a wily method for banks to make money" either.

Banks have to decide whether to clear direct debits, cheques etc. overnight, as there are deadlines for them to reject them which are for the benefit of those who are entitled to receive the money.

So, they reasonably demand that any money to meet such payments is in the account by close of business the previous banking day.

I can't see how that's unreasonable.

The problem is when poorly-trained staff, and poorly-comprehending customers, look at their statements and say "it's not fair, the debits are processed before the credits and I've been charged even though my account was never overdrawn".

You're NOT being charged for being overdrawn. You're being charged for failing to have the money there to meet the payment at the time the account's terms and conditions demand.

And it's not an A&L thing - like I said, it applies to (almost?) every bank in the UK and for the same reasons.

As I've said on another post, as a chartered accountant I've audited banks and that's why I like to think I know what I'm talking about; I also bank with A&L and therefore I have read their Ts & Cs!

masonic

MarkyMarkD wrote:

I also bank with A&L and therefore I have read their Ts & Cs!

Surely not, eh? Next you'll be telling us you read them before opening your account to make sure you understood how everything worked.

oldfella

It's not "just a wily method for banks to make money" either.

Banks have to decide whether to clear direct debits, cheques etc. overnight, as there are deadlines for them to reject them which are for the benefit of those who are entitled to receive the money.

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just a little more info pl MarkyMarkD- when they do the calculation can they also see direct debits that will pay money into the account the next day - if so I dont see what risk there is to the bank ?

and what about scheduled transfers for the next day where you have told them in advance to move money from one account to the other within the same bank ?

Mike

YorkshireBoy

oldfella wrote:

just a little more info pl MarkyMarkD- when they do the calculation can they also see direct debits that will pay money into the account the next day - if so I dont see what risk there is to the bank ?

Direct Credits, coming in via BACS, are different from paying cash in on the same day.

The process normally runs overnight, and the direct credits are processed at the same time as any direct debits that are scheduled to leave that day.

That's how it works with Yorkshire Bank anyway, but I presume it's the same with all banks?

masonic

oldfella wrote:

when they do the calculation can they also see direct debits that will pay money into the account the next day - if so I dont see what risk there is to the bank ?

For one thing, direct debits can be rejected. For another, why should the bank be expected to loan you the money free of charge for a day when other people pay for overdraft facilities?

MarkyMarkD

When oldfella said "the next day" he meant "the day the funds are scheduled to leave" or at least that's how I read it.

In practice, despite the terms and conditions, banks will tend to credit the automated credits first before debiting the automated debits - as YorkshireBoy suggests.

I have oodles of standing orders which leave my account on payday - as I'm sure many people do - and they've never given me any grief about that.

The problem is with NON-AUTOMATED credits such as cash deposits or inter-account transfers on the day - there's no way for them to be taken into account before the overnight batch run and that's why paying money in by those methods isn't satisfactory to fund the outgoing automated payments.

masonic

MarkyMarkD wrote:

When oldfella said "the next day" he meant "the day the funds are scheduled to leave" or at least that's how I read it.

Yes, I think I misinterpreted that phrase. Apologies, oldfella.

So, if credits are normally applied before debits, are the occasions where people have run into troubles, say, setting up automated transfers between savings accounts via a current account (without leaving a days 'buffer') just down to bad luck in that their transactions were processed out of the normal order?