anyone know EU law on keeping pets in flats?

moromir

There is a very good booklet produced by ( I believe, can't quite remember) the dogs protection league, its actually about renting to pet owners, but it does have some helpful information -

it talks about how a blanket ban on keeping pets can easily be construed as an unfair term by the OFT, however you can say something like pets are banned without prior written permission from the managing agent (of the residents association), and it is written as such in most of the leases I have seen.

Hope that helps a little bit.

Geenie

Interesting thread, because I was talking about this subject with my mother only yesterday. She was moaning about the fact that she has to endure constant cat sh*te and digging up of plants in her garden and vegtable patch from neighbouring pets.

The consensus here seems to be get over it, as cats roam.........but she has a sister living in Paris, who has to take their cat out on a lead, to poo in a designated area! It is the law, and people get fined for not doing so.

I hope we get the same thing here. It is not on to expect other people to put up with your pets bowel actions in their space. If I wanted cat sh*te in my garden I would get one.........and I do have one.........but no neighbours around for several miles.:D

Errata

OP - you'd better have a good hard think about this. Locally someone was keeping a pig on their balcony, and someone else a pony in the commumal garden. And don't forget about escaping snakes, screeching parrots, pigeon feeding etc etc etc

princeofpounds

Banning clauses are generally considered unfair and unenforceable. To make a claim the beneficiary of the clause would have to demonstrate loss or damage, if there is none, there is no basis.

Also general clauses have been held to be unfair in court. That is why many tenancies actually list a bunch of animals- judges have thrown out clauses as patently ridiculous because they do things like ban stick insects and goldfish.

pigeonpie

We are trying to go with a clause that allows small domestic pets subject to the usual nuisance clauses - but also specifically dogs with the consent of the freehold company and/or directors of the co as the feeling is that dogs are more likely to be controversial than cats. We have a residents' meeting in November which could be lively. Some want a total ban (there are no dogs at present, just cats or birds) and some want a ban on dangerous dogs. Others want dogs allowed if the owner is home most of the day. Some people are reasonable and others not.
Pity if there is no legal clarity but I'm sure that's why the French passed a law making it a specific right, subject to conditions.

princeofpounds

General banning clauses have been held as unenforceable several times in court (which is where it counts, although the OFT try to express opinions). I remember in one judgement I read about the judge said it was obviously nonsense because it would ban such harmless things as a stick insect in a jar.

That is why you often get strange clauses in leases where they weirdly specifically list the banning of 'dogs, cats, iguanas etc etc'.

But to be honest, any thoughts of human rights law, EU law or even pets as a specific case is kind of missing the legal point.

You can only take civil action in court for things that cause you damages. So, the above stick insect could never get you kicked out of a lease because no-one could realistically claim it has any negative impact on their lives. A savage barking dog is an entirely different matter. The beneficiary of a covenant would have to demonstrate that it is causing problems for them to get the court to enforce a covenant with legal powers. This is why banning clauses often run into trouble because they don't really have any legal basis in themselves.

To be honest, I think it is quite unreasonable to ban all pets unless everyone in the block agrees. And people will flout it anyway. But you need to make sure you can deal with nuisance pets. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure how best to write that up in legalese!

tek-monkey

princeofpounds wrote: »

That is why you often get strange clauses in leases where they weirdly specifically list the banning of 'dogs, cats, iguanas etc etc'.

Mine mentioned reptiles at the last place, but still let me keep them.

carefullycautious

I know in Local authority flats the rules are that if you have your own front door you can keep a dog but if the block has communal entrance you cant.

Fire_Fox

PlutoinCapricorn wrote: »

In my experience, even where it is against regulations people do keep pets as the laws for the block are not enforced.

The welfare of the pets is important too. I have seen a few cats kept in flats even though this is not permitted in theory, it seems a pity that they can't go outside. I have also seen a large dog in in a small flat, which seems unfair to the dog, even though it was taken out for regular walks.

I would agree with this in principle. However I am about to get a rescue cat to live in my flat - he has a medical condition affecting his paws such that he cannot go onto hard or rough surfaces. The alternatives included a deaf or partially sighted cat which aren't safe near traffic so again can't go outside.

And no, I haven't asked permission and am not going to as my cat will not affect anyone else.

Fire_Fox

pigeonpie wrote: »

We are trying to go with a clause that allows small domestic pets subject to the usual nuisance clauses - but also specifically dogs with the consent of the freehold company and/or directors of the co as the feeling is that dogs are more likely to be controversial than cats. We have a residents' meeting in November which could be lively. Some want a total ban (there are no dogs at present, just cats or birds) and some want a ban on dangerous dogs. Others want dogs allowed if the owner is home most of the day. Some people are reasonable and others not.
Pity if there is no legal clarity but I'm sure that's why the French passed a law making it a specific right, subject to conditions.

As a management company you may also need to consider the health and safety aspects - dogs or cats allowed into communal areas may cause allergic reactions in some individuals. Tho rare, this can lead to an asthma attack or anaphylactic shock both of which can be fatal.