Help with tenant

robpw2

did he turn up to the house unannouced or did he give 24hrs notice ??
whatever the sitution the ll needs to do things above in accordance with the contract and the law

clutton_2

if you are to get this guy out on anti social behaviour grounds - you will have to contact Environomental health as i have already suggested - they will ask the others in the block to keep a noise diary - this is the evidence a court will need to get this guy out on noise nuisance

there is no quick answer to this

robpw2

i hope he has reported the threat to the police too .. being threatened with a baseball bat is not appropriate

but as for noise its environmenal health

Richx6666

The landlord has reported it to the police and is going to fill in a statement with the other tenants who witnessed the event.

The landlord went round to the building because he received numerous complaints regarding the new tenant and his loud music, and banging.
The tenant just below the new tenant let the landlord into his flat to show how loud the music and banging was.

The landlord then knocked on the tenant’s door and asked the tenant to keep his music and banging down, not to disturb the other tenants.

Section 8 Grounds 14:that the tenant or someone living in or visiting the property has been guilty of conduct which is, or is likely to cause a nuisance or annoyance to neighbours. Or that a person residing or visiting the dwelling house has been convicted of using the property, or allowing it to be used, for immoral or illegal purposes or has committed an arrest able offence in, or in the locality of, the dwelling house. Note: This ground allows you to apply to the court for possession after you have served the notice without any waiting period.

Would it be exceptable to issue the tenant with this:

clutton_2

""Section 8 Grounds 14:that the tenant or someone living in or visiting the property has been guilty of conduct which is, or is likely to cause a nuisance or annoyance to neighbours.""

but you will have to have evidence .... you cannot just go to court and say "hello judge i have a noisy neighbour - off with his head"

i am not going to post this any more

ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH is your route - as well as the statement re the threatening behaviour and any records of police visits and other neighbours statements of detailed, dated accurate records of noise, times of day, levels of noise etc etc

When push comes to shove, neighbours VERY rarely will make a statment for a court case - as their statement gets sent to the Defendant and the neighbours fear retaliation

A judge will not evict someone due to one/two incidents, there has to be a whole series of noise-diaries, reports to the EHO, visits by the police

EHOs will come out to hear the noise for themselves, and may leave some noise-measuring equipment - EVIDENCE GATHERING - then they will be able to assist with how to get this guy out

Issuing a Section 8 notice on whatever grounds, simply tells the tenant that you INTEND to go to court - you then have to compile the evidence to do so and go to court at a later date - if you issue it too early, he will know you dont have the evidence and may get even worse.

EHOs can also remove music systems - after they have got enough evidence

Lavendyr

What clutton said (beat me to it!). You can issue the tenant with whatever you want, but you have to be able to prove it, and the best way to do that is to request your other tenants keep a noise diary and for all of you to get EH involved.

You did not answer the question earlier as to whether the landlord gave the noisy tenant at least 24 hours' notice in writing prior to "knocking on the tenant's door". The landlord cannot just turn up when he feels like it, he must follow his legal obligations - regardless of how bad the behaviour of this tenant is.

As above, there is no quick fix to this. In future your landlord friend could consider tightening up his vetting procedures prior to renting out his properties.

Richx6666

Thank you for your response.

The landlord didn't give 24hours notice in writing prior to "knocking on the tenant's door". The landlord went round to the property to hear the music/banging and ask the tenant to keep it at a reasonable level.

So the other tenants could have quiet enjoyment of the property.

Section 8 Grounds 14:or has committed an arrest able offence in, or in the locality of, the dwelling house

I take it that threatening the Landlord with a bat isn't enough evidence for a court to evict a tenant.

How can my friend tighten his vetting procedures?



Thank you again for all your help.

delain

clutton is, i believe, an LL and may be able to help you there. The trouble with small flats (i assume they are small?) is that you're likely to end up with single young men and you will now and again get a seriously anti-social one, who has never been taught to respect anyone else's space.

Maybe your friend could ask for written references which have to be checked prior to being accepted for the propery ie former landlords, employers (if applicable) or a college tutor or something, someone who won't want their reputation messed with if the person in question turns out to be a problem.

When i move, i tend to knock on my new neighbour's doors, and say 'i try not to be noisy, but if i am disturbing you just let me know, i probably haven't realised, and i'll stop whatever it is' as such i have always had civil relationships with my neighbours

Lavendyr

Richx6666 wrote: »

The landlord didn't give 24hours notice in writing prior to "knocking on the tenant's door". The landlord went round to the property to hear the music/banging and ask the tenant to keep it at a reasonable level.

OK, in future he needs not to do that or he could be accused of harrassment. Two wrongs don't make a right & all that.

Richx6666 wrote: »

So the other tenants could have quiet enjoyment of the property.

He can't ensure other tenants' quiet enjoyment by denying the same right to this tenant. They and he need to take Clutton's advice above.

Richx6666 wrote: »

I take it that threatening the Landlord with a bat isn't enough evidence for a court to evict a tenant.

Not unless there are witnesses willing to provide statements. Otherwise it's his word against the landlord's.

Richx6666 wrote: »

How can my friend tighten his vetting procedures?

Most landlords perform the following as standard before accepting a tenant:
- Credit check
- Employment reference
- Personal reference
- Previous landlord reference (at least 1, sometimes 2)

He could use a professional service such as Maras (who did our reference check) if he does not want to do this himself. Ultimately though, this is the risk of renting out properties - for every handful of good tenants you run the risk of getting a bad one. It's unfortunate that your friend's good tenants are subjected to the bad tenant as he could end up losing their custom as a result.

needahome_2

Hi Richx6666, I am no great fan of LL's, you only need to see my other posts to realise this, however I don sympathise with the other tenants as I have been in a similiar situation to this.

your first port of call is the EHO, and from personal experience of this they dont act on a first come first served basis (i.e. theres no backlog of complaints waiting to be dealt) but with those who shout and complain the loudest.

So to get the EHO to give you prioroty you need to get as many people as possible to make a complaint. The other tenants don't need to worry about their identities being disclosed. when there can only be one possible person who has complained the EHO dont disclose from my experience, and even if they did, could he beat everyone up in the flats?

regarding stopping LHA, I would be very careful about this, especially if you tried to evict him on non payment of rent. How would it look to the court if you were trying to evict for non payment of rent, if you were the one who stopped the payments! It would be immediatly thrown out, been in this position myself and that is what happened.

I think the anti-social behaviour is enough for you evict him, but you will need to go the long civil route for this, i suggest you get proper advice to avoid mucking this up.

There is one other possibility, although It won't end the tenancy but it would prevent him living there and that is if he attacks another tenant and he is arrested, then the tenant who has been attacked can request that as part of any bail conditions that the assailant can't return to his address.

To strengthen the possibility of this happening, you need to report ALL threats and threatening behaviour to police, even if they cant do anything about it, if there is a log of all incidents it will increase the chances of the guy from being allowed to return to the flat should he ever be arrested. Which from the sounds of it, will be very likely at some point!

Hope you get it sorted at some point for your other tenants sake