Engagement Rings (merged)

smashed

Jeez, this is a nightmare.
I have been trying to read up but there are so many different factors, and every diamond that I see has a flaw.
I cant go over £1500 , and ideally it would be less. I thought picking a diamond seperate would be good as I could be more selective and know what I am getting. However just when I think I find a good buy I see it has a cloud, or a feather etc.

I thought I could get around 0.5 c.
Tried to get no worse than a G, with excellent cut, and no fluerescene. I think I am being too picky as I narrow every criteria down to near the best, but this whacks the prices up and the selection down.

Can somebody please advise on what things I should put first in the selection process? And what areas are not so important?

Thanks

TediousPhoenix

smashed wrote: »

...and every diamond that I see has a flaw.

Natural diamonds are formed in the ground over many thousands of years under high pressures and temperatures, and due to this process there will undoubtedly there will be some imperfections. Only very, very rarely will a diamond form without ANY imperfections. And because of this, these diamonds - the clarity denoted as 'flawless' - will have a very high price tag, even for a small diamond.

But the good news is that there isn't just two categories; flawless and non-flawless. There's a sliding scale:

F Flawless Free from all inclusions or blemishes.

IF Internally Flawless No inclusions visible at 10x magnification.

VVS1 Very Very Slightly Included #1 Inclusions that are extremely difficult to locate at 10x.

VVS2 Very Very Slightly Included #2 Inclusions that are very difficult to locate at 10x.

VS1 Very Slightly Included #1 Minor inclusions that are difficult to locate at 10x.

VS2 Very Slightly Included #2 Minor inclusions that are somewhat difficult to locate at 10x.

SI1 Slightly Included #1 Noticeable inclusions that are easy to locate at 10x.

Sl2 Slightly Included #2 Noticeable inclusion that are very easy to locate at 10x.

I1 Included #1 Obvious inclusions. Somewhat easy to locate with the unaided eye.

I2 Included #2 Obvious inclusions. Easy to locate with the unaided eye.

I3 Included #3 Obvious inclusions. Very easy to locate with the unaided eye.


Generally high-street jewellers will only have diamonds that are in the range SII to I3. Is this where you've been looking? Really you want to be looking at VS2 and above. From this level and up any inclusions will be difficult to see with the naked eye.

How close are you to London or Birmingham? There's Hatton Garden and the Birmingham Quarter that will not only be a lot cheaper than the high-street, but will have diamonds in the VS2 range and above. There's also websites. Bluenile (and others I can't remember off the top of my head) are good at showing what your budget can get. There's also Whiteflash that has some lovely diamonds, particularly the ones that they cut themselves. (Had the pound not been so weak we probably would have bought a diamond from there.)

Cut is important. That is what gives a diamond fire and sparkle. Ideally you want to be going for very good or excellent.

And colour wise D to F are 'white' diamonds. Anything above I is fine. Below this the diamond can start to look a little yellow.

And once you balance all of this out you are left with the last of the 4Cs - size. Depending on what you go for with the above you are left with how large a diamond you can get. But it's not all about size. A lower weight, well cut diamond with good colour and clarity will be much nicer to the eye than a large diamond that looks dull.

Have a look at http://www.diasource.com/fourcs.htm at the 4Cs of diamonds.

And to prove you can get a lovely diamond that isn't flawless, here's my D VVS2 0.62c ring. (I like showing it off!)



I haven't looked too carefully, but here's a ring I made up on bluenile.co.uk:
Ideal-cut, E-colour, VS1-clarity, Round 0.51-Carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01524156
£1,074

18k White Gold Tapered Cathedral Engagement Ring Setting. Stock #: 7219
£315
Subtotal (including VAT): £1,597.



Or up the clarity and compromise on carat:

Signature Ideal-cut, F-colour, IF-clarity, Round 0.40-Carat Diamond. Stock #: LD01609335
£1,033

18k White Gold Tapered Cathedral Engagement Ring Setting. Stock #: 7219
£315
Subtotal (including VAT): £1,550.

smashed

Thanks for the info, I did want to provide some more info in my original post but the gf came in so I had to send it quickly.

Your ring is lovely, and I was considering a ring that was not round as some look great. However, I think I will go for a round one

I havent been to look at high streets as I had read quite a bit of the thread and had concluded that it would be overpriced. I would rather get the best I can for my gf in the budget allowed.
Places like SamaraJames interested me, but you dont get a full breakdown of what you are getting, so I am not sure. It would be good that I could choose a ring and then send it back if she didnt like it though, particularly as I would prefer to pick a real one for the proposal. On the other hand, I would like her to really like the 1 that she was given...eek.
I do have a lot of Clubcard points, so I had originally thought that Goldsmiths would be the way to go, but again I am assuming that the quality will not be so good. (If it was, I would expect them to harp on about it).
I had been looking at bluenile etc, and that was where my problems started. I am closer to London, but would probably only make the trip if the gf was with me, as I never make a snap decision.
Can I buy the diamond from 1 place and then go to get the ring designed elsewhere? If so, where is the best / cheapest place?

Is a cloud or a feather at VS2 a concern?

Thanks for all your help

crow99

Hi Smashed

I was in a similar position where I wanted to propose with 'the ring' without her choosing.
Like you I had a simlar budget of upto £1500 - I took a trip to Hatton Garden's and looked at a number of diamonds and mounts before searching online. In the end I dedcided I could get a lot more for my money.
In the end I went with http://www.bluenile.co.uk - found their customer service to be superb and a great returns policy - the killer for me was their online search facility really helped me choose my diamond!

My criteria was as follows:
Colour: F - I saw some G/H's and could notice a tint in the larger diamonds, likewise I saw D's and didn't see much difference - F allowed me a good price without a white diamond
Carat: 0.5+ I wanted the gf to be able to know it was 0.5c and liked the size.
Clarity: SI1 - Initally I started searching for VS2 but in several jewellers I saw similar stones in SI1 and VS2 and didn't notice any visible difference, so thought I dont want to pay extra or compromise another C for something she would need a microscope to notice.
Cut Grade: Very Good or Excellent - Speaks for itself, good cut

Other Pieces:
Grading - I wanted a GIA Diamond as it is regarded as the highest quality lab.
Fluorescence - None, very visible change to the diamong if anything else
Polish/Symmetry - Excellent

Lastly I wanted the diamond to score Excellent in the Hollyway Cut Advisor http://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp

In the end I got the below diamond for 80% of my budget and was super happy with it!! It's also worth noting that you can use the holiday code of UKHOLIDAY49 for a further 10% off until 20th December 09, was mailed to me but sure it would work for you.

crow99 wrote: »

Laser Inscription Registry: GIA 6102364829

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 5.10 - 5.12 x 3.15 mm

Carat Weight: 0.50 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good

Proportions:
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 54%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 60%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

Cut Advisor Rating: Excellent

smashed

Thanks for all the advice. That 10% voucher could make all the difference if it works.
I have been looking at a Brian Gavin Signature Diamond having read stumpjumpers advice , and then some other excellent reviews on pricescope. The question now is whether his diamond is going to be significantly better than what I would pick up from somewhere like bluenile if I picked one of their top diamonds).
I was also looking for the top specs, but I have read that something with an excellent cut (like Brian Gavin) will ensure that an H will still look immaculate. It gets very complicated.

stumpjumper

I'd say, visit Goldsmiths and see what they have. see if the diamonds you see compare to the images you've seen on the net. Cup your hand around the diamond, see if you see the arrows shining back at you.

Just a quick look on their website - for your budget ballpark for £1500 they have a a 0.3ct solitare in a platinum 4 prong ring. (doesnt give info as to the Colour or Clarity)
or a 0.5ct solitare in platium for £2000


Looking on Blue Nile, in the signature ideal range they have several stones in the range of 0.61-0.63 G SI1, for about £1000-1010ex VAT 0.60 G VS2 for £1260 ex VAT, or 0.61 H VS1 for about £1300ex VAT
so your price range of an equivalent BG stone from BN Signature Ideal is £1150-1495inc VAT + the cost of the ring

Compare this to the Brian Gavin stone you've looked at a 0.625 H VS2 for about £900 EX VAT, but you need to add on Postage of about £40-50
Add in the cost of the ring as you mentioned to me, and your looking at a price of £1600 for the diamond and ring, inc VAT and tax + postage so £1650 all in.
And your getting a stone from a master craftsman who can provide all the images you want of the stone, where as the equivalent BN stone is more expensive, and you cant get as much information about the stone.
Goldsmith - your paying alot more for 'a diamond' of unknown quality

smashed

Thanks

The BG diamond was $1500, plus $750 for the ring, so £2300 inc postage. That is £1483 (exchange rate of 1.55, which is possibly optimistic given what exchange rate you tend to get from a card). Add the 17.5% tax, and it is £1742. Then I am looking at another £80 to send the ring back and forth for the inevitable resizing.
I did therefore wonder what BN would provide for that figure, and if their top calibre diamonds would be comparable. However, it does seem that they are not cheap for diamonds of that size and cut.
Goldsmiths was purely a great choice as I had £200 Tesco, making £800 back from them. But as you say, you have no idea what they are selling you…but then neither would the gf

I could buy a car for the price of this

Lesley is sending me some more info today hopefully, but she has reserved the ring for me

stumpjumper

smashed wrote: »

I could buy a car for the price of this

Lesley is sending me some more info today hopefully, but she has reserved the ring for me

AHH but with a car - it will depreciate, and you'll want to trade it in after a few years.

a engagement ring, she'll wear for the rest of her life

(and places like BG, and a few others have a 100% trade up value should you want a bigger stone in future, or 70% buy back policy provided you also keep the cert)

As for pricing. yes, $1507 for the diamond, $750 for the ring, making a total of $2257.
as a UK customer, BG uses paypal to process UK cards (US banks wont accept UK cards for such purchases, so paypal - dont need an account if you dont have one - rates arent that bad ATM, around $1.65ish to the £1
making the price about £1367.

UK customs will use the $2257 as declared value on the insurance slip and use thier published conversion rate - which for December is $1.67=£1 so £1351+postge (postage cost is added to the value) so call it £1400
as its a ring, import duty of 2.5% is added, then VAT at 15% (if bought before 1st Jan) so £1435 inc import then £1650.25 inc VAT

smashed

Thanks, I didn’t know the current customs rate (a long time since I bought from the US).
I just checked and paypal is currently showing $2257 = £1423. Add the £38 for postage ($60), and that is £1461 + 243 for tax, so £1704. I read that the paypal rate will change 2 x a day. I assume that the paypal charge will go to BG, not myself. (paying by Credit Card for protection as you never know).

stumpjumper

yes, BG get the charge from Paypal.

This is why they offer a 10% discount if you paid via a bank wire.
Obviously UK buyers are very warey of this payment method and prefer the protection of using a credit card, hence why several vendors who have regular business from the UK have the paypal option - such as Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds.com, Whiteflash.com and Blue Nile set up the BN.co.uk site.


payment via bank wire seems to be more common in the US, as i've noticed a lot of vendors offer the 10% off for bank wire (tho this covers more of less the fee charged by your bank to send the wire)
If you found the diamond on Pricescope, and you are a member there, then some vendors offer 10% off the price of the diamond, not sure if BG have this offer tho.