Incorrect Address - Who's fault?

Tea3

Hi, this is actually a website related question but the folks on this ebay section generally seem knowledgable about customer/sellers rights etc so figured this was the palce to post it.

A customer placed an order on my website and we dispatched the order to the address they provided (paid by card, billing and delivery address were the same). A whole later they contacted us to say the order was not received so we dispatched a replacement to them AFTER confirming the address was correct (emailed notification of the original loss and order details). This replacement order was only part in stock so was sent part one week/part the next week. Customer now contacted to say they only received the smaller second part of the replacement order and would now like a refund!

After a few emails it was realised they had not put a flat or house number on their order, or on their customer account or on subsequent emails - they however claim the third part order posted went to their correct address but i suspect this was the sorting office or postman recognising the name and adding the flat number (my copies of dispatch/packing labels show address with no flat number as its copied exactly from what the customer enters and this address looks like it could be a house name so did not appear as incomplete, but it now turns out the name is a block of flats).

My question is who is responsible?
They now want a refund but I have dispatched two lots of orders (value £30 each) and paid out three lots of postage - note royal mail will not refund me for these lost orders as they were sent to an incomplete address. I have done nothing wrong, royal mail did nothing wrong and the only person at fault is the customer who on 4 seperate occassions did not correct address or say any flat or house number was missing, and the address was copied exactly from their order which they also received a copy of at the time or ordering). The original order was paid for by card in June

A while back trading standards said to me a non delivery due to incorrect address supplied by the customer could be treated as a customer distance selling regulations return in that they are entitled to a full refund of all monies paid - is this right? I will be furious if I have paid out near £70 in goods and postage and now have to refund £35 back to the customer also all due to their mistake.

Sorry for very long post - am slightly rattled by this.

MarkyMarkD

Why did Royal Mail not return the first two items if they were incompletely addressed?

I trust that you did provide a return address on the packages.

I do not understand the trading standards approach. If you did everything possible to deliver the goods and they did not arrive because of mis-addressing, and that mis-addressing was the customer's fault, then it is not fair in any sense to make you refund the customer.

You could have identified that the address was incomplete, from the PAF. I am not saying that you should have done so, but it is an allegation that may be made against you. Equally well, what do you do to check that the card billing address is valid and actually matches the delivery address - as it is unlikely that a card company is billing an invalid address?

Tea3

the parcels had my return address labels on them as well as a document enclosed label which also has all return information (we post lots of parcels so make sure everything possible done to help incase of non-deloivery).

Checking each address is correct is not an option as sometimes posting out 100's of items a day and dont have time to check them all - if something looks amiss i check online or contact the customer for clarification but this address looks complete and tey customer ok'd it several times as we emailed them a copy with each enquiry regarding her original non delivery. I also mention at checkout for the customer to confirm all the details incl address are correct so think the onus is passed to them to ensure they enter the right info (from my point of view anyway). The credit card company checks came back fine with nothing flagged up as wrong - it was all 3d secure and low risk address etc.

If they had said address was Johnson Road, Belfast for example we would contact them before posting order but this address was along the lines of Stephen Cottage, Jimson Road, Birmingham (not the address provided but similar and full postcode was supplied) so nothing seemed unusual and the customer did not say anything despite several copies sent to them (including one form they had to complete for royal mail which they put this incomplete address on).

Does this customer have any comeback now? Obviously if the order is returned I will refund less postage (would still be out of pocket) although anytime a customer returns an items I always refund in full to comply with DSR however in this case I dont think the customer has done all they could to ensure they provided the right info - but then again I am biaised on this lol

ceebeeby

Och, they're at it! Offer them refund if they return smaller package less postage and tell them to put correct a/d in future!

Tea3

The smaller package had item worth £5 in it, its orginal order worth £30 and replacement order worth £25 they claim did not arrive - and I more or less believe them that the original did not arrive however they waited over a month to say the replacement did not arrive which is weird, but still possible. If i issued refund it would need to be for £25+ postage after spending out over £70 combined on postage and 2 lots of goods (or refund £30 excl postage if they returned the smaller item so still well out of pocket).

Reading this thread back I want to point out I bend over backwards giving vouchers, discounts, free stuff etc and always comply with distance selling regulations etc and make customers aware of their rights for a full refund incl postage (even though some similar sellers to me keep postage or even charge a re-stocking fee:eek:) so i'm not trying to wriggle out of this one and sent the first replacement order with no problems or obligations from the customer. Just wanted to mention that incase anyone thought 'oops heres another seller trying to get out of a refund' etc. (I'm not paranoid.. but i have to say that incase their watching :rotfl:)

soolin

Unfortunately as a business you are stuck. Businesses are supposed to be able to prove that customers have their items, otherwise customers get a full refund. It isn't fair and of course most of the time it is fine as buyers don't set out to stitch up companies, but you have just been unlucky to meet one of the few who can't be bothered to use the correct address.

Hintza

Not sure I agree Soolin. I might be proved wrong but I think if I was the OP then I would probably fight it and tell the customer I would refund on return. Of course the Credit Card company or court might not agree but I think I would make life a little difficult for the buyer.

OP has to decide though whether potential bad publicity, loss of customer, potential hassle factor etc is worth the fight.

soolin

Hintza wrote: »

Not sure I agree Soolin. I might be proved wrong but I think if I was the OP then I would probably fight it and tell the customer I would refund on return. Of course the Credit Card company or court might not agree but I think I would make life a little difficult for the buyer.

OP has to decide though whether potential bad publicity, loss of customer, potential hassle factor etc is worth the fight.

I agree that I would still fight this one, I certainly wouldn't make it easy for the buyer. I have had a couple of issues myself over the weekend actually with partial addresses, one on Amazon where it just says something like:
AA Electronics
Unit 3
Swindon
AA3 4BW
When i input the post code to the Royal Mail address finder it brings up a long residential road with house numbers and a google search shows houses and no industrial estate or anything. The only thing I cna add to the address is a customer name as although it doesn't show on the Amazon despatch note the email contact details show a Mrs Edwards.

The ebay one has replied to me, that was a completely missing number on a confirmed and OK to send paypal purchase. It just said something like:
Liberty Road
SwindonAA3 4BW

The buyer said 'whoops' I keep forgetting to correct my paypal address as it should be number 120. (The ebay address is a completely different town so no help at all)

I don't know why customers find it so difficult to know where they live!

Enterprise_1701C

I would want to know why you haven't received the items back as they have your return address on them! Also, has the customer checked with other residents, does the residence have one of those communal mail areas?

Also, the evil part of my brain asks if you can find out if there is more than one resident occupying this residence.

soolin

Of all my lost parcels over the years, including several sent to my mother, I have only ever had two returned to me despite my return address being clearly shown.

Tea3

I agree - I have a printed address label on the reverse of every package I send out and a full address printed inside the document enclosed label along with customer address, invoice etc so I cant see why items dont get returned if undelivered. I'd say for every 10 that go missing I am lucky if I get 2 back. I once said to royal mail that if the parcel has not been delivered for any reason - wrong address, attempted delivery etc - then surely the parcel is still lost by royal mail if I dont get it back? Of course they said no and that I could only claim if it was lost en-route to the customer and not en-route back to me! Either way they still lost it so I dont get their logic but like others I too am annoyed by this - I think its the fact I have bent over backwards to help this customer already and now she is being 'annoyed' and demanding her refund - not even a 'sorry I did not notice address was incomplete' and instead a reply along the lines of 'we knew her flat number even though she did not enter it' !!!!

ADDED - have now spoken to trading standards to see if I am breaking rules and unfortunately not a black/white scenario as yes, under dsr customer must receive items or refund, however on several occassions they have approved the address we sent to them without correcting it (including completing and signing a royal mail form with the incomplete address). Due to this I think I will offer her a half money back refund as a goodwill gesture however if ANY of the lost orders are returned to us eventually through royal mail we will refund the other half - still means we lose out as we sent several copies of the order to her. Trading standards said maybe issued a refund as a voucher but that means her ordering from me again and i suspect she would claim loss again and needless to say her account is well and truely closed!