Incapacity Benefit Wrongly Stopped - Failed Medical

cit_k

alwayshavingago wrote: »

Dear CIT_k and Garry_Anderson
I thank you for for your posts dismissing my advice on how to deal with problems IB/ESA, follow correct procedures, complain to MP etc absolute waste of time silly me - what was I thinking about all these years working to help others much of it in my own time.

All along I should have advised people to come on this forum and tell them to listen to you two bleating on endlessly about your own vast experience - me me me!!!

Remind me where we have dismissed your advice on how to deal with problems, or how to follow correct procedure?

Explain how our experiences or advice are any less valid than the views of others?

alwayshavingago wrote: »

I have never seen any post by you two that has given any advice on how to deal with a potentially/alleged unfair assessment other than its a big plot to have a go at people with mental health problems. Where is the advice, that you two must have from your vast experience, on how to deal with the assessment, prepare for appeal/Tribunal, what to claim in the mean time etc?

.

Not that someone has to post advice, instead of just personal experiences, but I have posted lots of advice on this forum... A few examples below.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600025&highlight=#post24600025

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24529683&highlight=#post24529683

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22871397&highlight=#post22871397

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22849431&highlight=#post22849431

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23564959&highlight=#post23564959

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23530895&highlight=#post23530895

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24840513&highlight=#post24840513

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24517071&highlight=#post24517071


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24839553&highlight=#post24839553

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24512539&highlight=#post24512539

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24495285&highlight=#post24495285

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23782863&highlight=#post23782863

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24492301&highlight=#post24492301

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458191&highlight=#post24458191

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458183&highlight=#post24458183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24838343&highlight=#post24838343

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24534147&highlight=#post24534147

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24808485&highlight=#post24808485

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24796003&highlight=#post24796003

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24767075&highlight=#post24767075

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24765405&highlight=#post24765405

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24758359&highlight=#post24758359


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24731203&highlight=#post24731203

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24685751&highlight=#post24685751

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24669183&highlight=#post24669183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24658533&highlight=#post24658533

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24644297&highlight=#post24644297

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24632489&highlight=#post24632489

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600265&highlight=#post24600265

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23447925&highlight=#post23447925

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22995253&highlight=#post22995253

There is always the possibility that the assessment was fair and the claimant simply does not qualify there is never any discussion on this - what descriptors do you do you think apply/what points should you have, for example.

Should a post come in where they are asking about specifics like that, Im sure people would discuss those specifics, but they tend to be along the lines of my evidence was ignored, or the evidence was twisted, or I scored 0 points etc etc..
So usually no one does go into that side of things...

Is it possible to create a guide on here for people to read on how to deal with this particular problem, is ir called a sticky? That way people can read it then enter the debate if they want (have a stiff drink/take medication first)
people facing this type of problem would be best advised to visit the web sites of CAB/DIAL/Disability Alliance first.

or benefitsandwork, or yourable

I wonder how someone who is worried/anxious/distraught would feel viewing this thread - pretty hopeless probably

How would someone who is reading this thread who has had their benefits stopped (Which is likely why they are reading the thread) feel if all the posters just patted themselves on the back, told them to appeal, and said dont worry the majority of medicals are fair (effectively implying its probably your fault)- but dont worry, the majority of appeals are fair, so probably you will win (again effectively saying but if you dont, its your fault?)

Any one reading a thread can make their own minds up, and the best way to be armed for a tribunal is to have as much evidence as possible, and to understand the entire process in as much detail as possible, and how things can go wrong etc, and how things should be done, and it can put a anxious persons mind at rest to know they are not the only one in that situation, that it happens to others, and have examples of it etc.

cit_k

healy wrote: »

I can say thanked in error if I want.

There have been no changes to the way tribunals are run. There are going to be more negative that positive posts on this board for obvious reason see post 320.

I have not brought the subject of thanks yous up, you have therefore you have the obsession. The fact that I am thanked does not devalue my posts or give more credibility to the opposite side.

Not when it comes to tribunals...

Those will be more statistically accurate than the reports about medicals, as many people only post about medicals when their is a problem.

But the amount of those posts (re medicals) does indicate a clear problem...

But when their is a problem with a medical they post about the tribunal, and usually, in the main, come in to discuss if they won or lost the tribunal.

So as far as tribunals go, readers get a more balanced view.

However, boards like this by their very nature will always attract more problems than happy posts in general over a wider range of issues, that is their purpose....

ps - re tribunals, something has changed, for some reason the tribunal benchbook that used to be available for the public to read, in order to ensure due and fair process was being carried out is now no longer in the public domain...

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?func=view&catid=10&id=9788&limit=6&start=6#9846

I wonder why they would want to stop members of the public from finding out if a tribunal followed the rules?

Garry_Anderson

alwayshavingago wrote: »

Dear CIT_k and Garry_Anderson
I thank you for for your posts dismissing my advice on how to deal with problems IB/ESA, follow correct procedures, complain to MP etc absolute waste of time silly me - what was I thinking about all these years working to help others much of it in my own time.

All along I should have advised people to come on this forum and tell them to listen to you two bleating on endlessly about your own vast experience - me me me!!!

The post from Garry about his complaint to his MP says it all it did not help ME.

Well if enough people complain and take things forward raise issues it becomes a body of evidence that is difficult to ignore.

Garry your appeal was in the last decade for gods sake get over it! you have had your benefit ever since.

I know there are problems with the system in particular with Mental Health - but i do not believe this is due to corruption or conspiracy that is just scaremongering.

Take a look at http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/campaigns/social_policy/briefings/br_benefitsandtaxcredits/what_the_doctor_ordered_

Although out of date that is how you raise issues and I am proud to say I contributed evidence to that report, it is reasoned and based on evidence. The DWP is a vast organization it has to apply the rules to a very diverse client base there bound to be problems, but I know from my contacts with them that it is full of people who genuinely work Hard and want to help people.

I do not think any one can argue with the Governments goal of 'no one written off' however with the introduction of ESA and the limited amount of time this had to settle in, I am concerned that the assessments are able to deal with certain groups of claimants -in particular mental health. The problem is certain conditions and terms are often abused fro example stress and depression both can at the worse be extremely debilitating and can make someone very ill, however it has become almost trendy to have stress and are common terms to use - leading to a watering down of the true effects of these illnesses. They must also be very difficult to assess in the Short and somewhat restricted PCA assessment.

I have never seen any post by you two that has given any advice on how to deal with a potentially/alleged unfair assessment other than its a big plot to have a go at people with mental health problems. Where is the advice, that you two must have from your vast experience, on how to deal with the assessment, prepare for appeal/Tribunal, what to claim in the mean time etc?

There is always the possibility that the assessment was fair and the claimant simply does not qualify there is never any discussion on this - what descriptors do you do you think apply/what points should you have, for example.

Is it possible to create a guide on here for people to read on how to deal with this particular problem, is ir called a sticky? That way people can read it then enter the debate if they want (have a stiff drink/take medication first)

people facing this type of problem would be best advised to visit the web sites of CAB/DIAL/Disability Alliance first.

I wonder how someone who is worried/anxious/distraught would feel viewing this thread - pretty hopeless probably.

Dear Shaving Ago - where to start?

I dismiss advice like mine is dismissed - actually, I think actual experience beats opinion - don't you.

Indeed - the very fact that wrong-doings continue today prove that MP's have no effect.

I have said it many times - there is no consiracy (you use false representation to dismiss criticism) it is just the mind-set of individuals within the system.

The "no one written off" is rose-tinted propaganda - if it was to help people then we wouldn't have many of the problems we do today.

I do not doubt that there are good people in the system - just you will not admit the authorities don't try stop the bad ones.

cit_k

Garry_Anderson wrote: »

The "no one written off" is rose-tinted propaganda - if it was to help people then we wouldn't have many of the problems we do today.

True, as no one written off, is in complete contradiction to the data contained in the esa impact assessment, which clearly admits people will be written off.

Oldernotwiser

cit_k wrote: »

Remind me where we have dismissed your advice on how to deal with problems, or how to follow correct procedure?

Explain how our experiences or advice are any less valid than the views of others?


Not that someone has to post advice, instead of just personal experiences, but I have posted lots of advice on this forum... A few examples below.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600025&highlight=#post24600025

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24529683&highlight=#post24529683

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22871397&highlight=#post22871397

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22849431&highlight=#post22849431

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23564959&highlight=#post23564959

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23530895&highlight=#post23530895

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24840513&highlight=#post24840513

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24517071&highlight=#post24517071


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24839553&highlight=#post24839553

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24512539&highlight=#post24512539

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24495285&highlight=#post24495285

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23782863&highlight=#post23782863

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24492301&highlight=#post24492301

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458191&highlight=#post24458191

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458183&highlight=#post24458183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24838343&highlight=#post24838343

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24534147&highlight=#post24534147

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24808485&highlight=#post24808485

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24796003&highlight=#post24796003

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24767075&highlight=#post24767075

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24765405&highlight=#post24765405

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24758359&highlight=#post24758359


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24731203&highlight=#post24731203

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24685751&highlight=#post24685751

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24669183&highlight=#post24669183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24658533&highlight=#post24658533

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24644297&highlight=#post24644297

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24632489&highlight=#post24632489

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600265&highlight=#post24600265

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23447925&highlight=#post23447925

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22995253&highlight=#post22995253

For pity's sake, get a life!

In fact, throw in GA and get two lives!

bestpud

May I make a suggestion...?

If you genuinely want to help people by giving them useful information on appealing and/or tribunals, perhaps you could do so without scaring them half to death?

I've read the first few 'helpful' links you have highlighted, and have to say they do give some advice, but wrapped in a story designed to make the whole process appear as difficult and intimidating as possible.

This may have been your experience, but for people about to embark on this process, it may be better to tell them what they can do to minimise potential problems, or delays?

For example:

Tell them you have been through this and have picked up tips on the way
Tell them where they can get helpful advice
Tell them what paperwork it is worth keeping
Tell them they may well ask how they arrived at the medical and/or take the journey into account
Tell them the steps in the process
Tell them if there is any evidence they can gather that may help

But don't tell them it is going to be a nightmare process and they are under suspicion dah de dah, as I am sure you can see that is less than helpful, especially for someone with mental illness. You can see that, can't you?

It's all about the way you put it to people imo.

You can say you had a bad experience but you don't need to go into it in depth and you don't need to turn it into a conspiracy story. You can then say you have now discovered ways to avoid potential issues as far as is possible - and that is useful information!

What you are doing is undoubtedly scaring people and, from what you say, that is not what you want?

You want to help people going through this, so help them, don't scare them!

Can you see what I am saying? I really hope so, as this is getting daft, and it's a shame when you have useful advice to offer but it's being outweighed by information people do not need.

If anyone wants the ins and outs of your case, believe me, they will pm you, but until then, it may be better to assume they don't.

Just my thoughts...

cit_k wrote: »

Remind me where we have dismissed your advice on how to deal with problems, or how to follow correct procedure?

Explain how our experiences or advice are any less valid than the views of others?


Not that someone has to post advice, instead of just personal experiences, but I have posted lots of advice on this forum... A few examples below.


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600025&highlight=#post24600025

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24529683&highlight=#post24529683

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22871397&highlight=#post22871397

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22849431&highlight=#post22849431

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23564959&highlight=#post23564959

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23530895&highlight=#post23530895

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24840513&highlight=#post24840513

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24517071&highlight=#post24517071


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24839553&highlight=#post24839553

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24512539&highlight=#post24512539

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24495285&highlight=#post24495285

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23782863&highlight=#post23782863

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24492301&highlight=#post24492301

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458191&highlight=#post24458191

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24458183&highlight=#post24458183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24838343&highlight=#post24838343

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24534147&highlight=#post24534147

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24808485&highlight=#post24808485

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24796003&highlight=#post24796003

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24767075&highlight=#post24767075

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24765405&highlight=#post24765405

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24758359&highlight=#post24758359


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24731203&highlight=#post24731203

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24685751&highlight=#post24685751

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24669183&highlight=#post24669183

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24658533&highlight=#post24658533

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24644297&highlight=#post24644297

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24632489&highlight=#post24632489

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=24600265&highlight=#post24600265

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=23447925&highlight=#post23447925

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=22995253&highlight=#post22995253



Should a post come in where they are asking about specifics like that, Im sure people would discuss those specifics, but they tend to be along the lines of my evidence was ignored, or the evidence was twisted, or I scored 0 points etc etc..
So usually no one does go into that side of things...


or benefitsandwork, or yourable



How would someone who is reading this thread who has had their benefits stopped (Which is likely why they are reading the thread) feel if all the posters just patted themselves on the back, told them to appeal, and said dont worry the majority of medicals are fair (effectively implying its probably your fault)- but dont worry, the majority of appeals are fair, so probably you will win (again effectively saying but if you dont, its your fault?)

Any one reading a thread can make their own minds up, and the best way to be armed for a tribunal is to have as much evidence as possible, and to understand the entire process in as much detail as possible, and how things can go wrong etc, and how things should be done, and it can put a anxious persons mind at rest to know they are not the only one in that situation, that it happens to others, and have examples of it etc.

cyclonebri1

alwaysonthego wrote: »

The thing is Cyclonebri the benefits board is not a discussion board only meant for help with benefit questions not for debates on benefit policies. This is why we are keen for it to be locked.

I understand what you mean but in reallity thats not practical. It only takes 2 opposing bits of advice or views, and each side feels they have to support or defend whats theyv'e posted. You must admit that's human nature. It's also human nature for some not to want to back down even when everyone else that reads both sides realises, hence my light hearted "any get outs" question.

But your right, they do go one, 2 pages of tit for tat since I last looked, (even after I said I wouldn't)

healy

cit_k wrote: »

Not when it comes to tribunals...

Those will be more statistically accurate than the reports about medicals, as many people only post about medicals when their is a problem.

But the amount of those posts (re medicals) does indicate a clear problem...

But when their is a problem with a medical they post about the tribunal, and usually, in the main, come in to discuss if they won or lost the tribunal.

So as far as tribunals go, readers get a more balanced view.

However, boards like this by their very nature will always attract more problems than happy posts in general over a wider range of issues, that is their purpose....

That is what I said.

ps - re tribunals, something has changed, for some reason the tribunal benchbook that used to be available for the public to read, in order to ensure due and fair process was being carried out is now no longer in the public domain...

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?func=view&catid=10&id=9788&limit=6&start=6#9846

I wonder why they would want to stop members of the public from finding out if a tribunal followed the rules?

I was talking about posts in general.

Nothing has changed with tribunals.

Garry_Anderson

Originally Posted by Garry_Anderson
The "no one written off" is rose-tinted propaganda - if it was to help people then we wouldn't have many of the problems we do today.

cit_k wrote: »

True, as no one written off, is in complete contradiction to the data contained in the esa impact assessment, which clearly admits people will be written off.

I see nobody on the other side of this argument fighting for the rights of those sick claimants written off - but then again, you wouldn't expect them to

Oldernotwiser

Garry_Anderson wrote: »

[/I]



I see nobody on the other side of this argument fighting for the rights of those sick claimants written off - but then again, you wouldn't expect them to

What are you on?

Most of us have been arguing that people with disabilities shouldn't be written off; you're the one that seems to be saying that someone with a disability should never have to work!