How big should my pension pot be ?

novice-saver

marklv wrote: »

Smarmy git.

Spoken like somebody who finally realises they've lost the plot. :rotfl::rotfl:

skinto_1

marklv wrote: »

I never intended to give that impression. My generalisation is based on the accepted fact that for most (though of course not all) occupations, the private sector pays more.


I know very well that in a number of cases private sector workers had their final salary benefits frozen and were forced on to less generous money purchase schemes. Yes, this was wrong, and there should have been legislation in place to prevent this happening, but two wrongs don't make a right, do they? And yes, something has to be done to ensure that there is money 'in the pot'. The change that I outlined earlier would ensure that there is, without a need for drastic measures.

With respect i do not think its for you too decide whether your opinion is an "accepted fact" or not.

I am not qualified nor have enough knowledge of what is left "in the pot" to comment on what changes are required so there will be "no need for drastic measures"

Neither am i saying that two wrongs make a right, i was mereley pointing pointing out that what you were saying about final salary pensions being unacceptable for public sector workers has been happening in private sector for some time now. A point which you now agree with above.

marklv

"With respect i do not think its for you too decide whether your opinion is an "accepted fact" or not"

No, it's not. But if you research the subject in detail, you will find that this is the case. Furthermore, there are many public sector occupations that do not have private sector equivalents, so comparisons cannot be made.

skinto_1

marklv wrote: »

"With respect i do not think its for you too decide whether your opinion is an "accepted fact" or not"

No, it's not. But if you research the subject in detail, you will find that this is the case. Furthermore, there are many public sector occupations that do not have private sector equivalents, so comparisons cannot be made.

Im slightly confused Mark, you are stating in your previous post that its an "accepted fact" that the majority of Private sectors jobs are better paid than public sector jobs but in this post you are now saying that comparisons cannot be made as many occupations do not transfer from private to public sector.

It was you that started with the comparisons, this was the point i made earlier. comparisons cant be made and generalised the way you have being doing so far on this thread.

Chinahand

As a newbie to these boards - WOW!
I didn't realise how much I missed the banter between fellow countryment - be it good, bad, indifferent, sarcastic or realistic.

I would like to offer my two cents as someone who always paid their dues in the UK - and continued to do so after we left for foreign shores until we were at the maximum payments - NI contributions, tax on foreign earnings for the first twelve months. I owe nothing to nobody and IF we do return will pay our dues as we go - its an age thing.


Re the public/private sector debate pension v where I live now (if only for a little insight) IMO I do not agree at all that public sector workers should be paid 'fat cat' pensions - we could streamline our government by 50% if the private sector took it over and get rid of the deadwood and hangers on.

Here in China we have what is called MPF - it is a mandatory provident fund which EVERYONE (in the private sector) has to pay in to. Your employer pays the absolute minimum required of 1000HK$ per month and you pay 1000 as well - or more if you like.

This, by law, CANNOT be touched until retirement age of 60. There is NO such thing as state pension and this is the nearest thing to it.(although it costs the government nothing)
However, as it has only been operating for 12 years you certainly aren't going to get anywhere near anything of a pension - especially if you only started the MPF in your 40's and 50's.
(approx 76UKP per month at todays rate)

It was a licence to daylight robbery. The MPF made brokerage firms rich and people poorer than they were when they put their money on the horses at Happy Valley. It is all in shares... EVERY single provident fund in HK has lost approx. 6% of its value - and it was worth nothing in the first place.

Which brings me to our government sector workers... Here our civil servants pay and conditions are well cushioned. They are known as the iron rice-bowl workers because whatever happens in the private sector - doesn't affect them.
Pensions (not MPF) are index linked and most civil servants retire at 55 after having EVERYTHING paid for them and more.
Our hospital mangers get an average 2-10million dollar bonus EVERY YEAR
Accommodation provided (the largest in HK) and our Donnie Duck chief executive (Donald Tsang) and his cronies -all the wealty tycoons he has appointed to gov. positons- are the highest paid civil servants IN THE WORLD - Donald - gets paid three to four times the salry of OBAMA!!!!!!!
He is not elected and there are now approx 7.5million people in HK.
Now that should really p### you off.
Our rich are getting richer and our poor are getting poorer - ABSOLUTE FACT.
We may be apples and oranges compared to Blighty - but as far as the civil service goes with all their perks - I would say that our middle managers are on par.

bendix

It's rather curious that marklv refuses to deal with the Unison pension issue.

There was a very good piece in the Times today which deals with this directly. In it, the writer points out a few facts.

Fact 1. Unison is the leading local government and health service worker union. It has campaigned vociferously against cutbacks to public sector pensions, yet in papers revealed this week it is clearly having to cut back the final-salary scheme for its own employees. It seems that while it can't afford it's own pension obligations which it has to pay, it still sees fit to campaign that the taxpayer must pay for those of its members.

Fact 2. The old argument that public sector workers should have better pensions because they earn less than those in the private sector no longer holds true. According to the Office of National Statistics, average earnings in the public sector are £523 per week. Average earnings in the private sector are £460 per week. Public sector employees also have much higher levels of job security, of course.

Fact 3. Public sector pensions will soon cost the public purse £22 billion a year. This is equivalent to 6 pence per pound on basic rate income tax. Let's repeat that. We are paying 6 pence income tax per pound to finance public sector pensions.

Of course, marklv won't address these. Instead, he will bleat that he deserves it, despite, of course only working in the public sector for a very short while. Or we will get some assinine argument that says they deserve it because - get this - if they don't get it they will go on strike.