How big should my pension pot be ?

marklv

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I am very angry about the way Brown has raped private pensions and left public schemes virtually untouched.
I've no objection to public sector schemes staying as now but Brown's got to offer massive tax subsidies to the private sector to ensure similar benefits are available to all.

Envy - not really. My partner benefits from the generous public sector scheme. Anyway, I won't be paying for it, future generations will.

I don't want "revenge" - merely a fair and equitable solution going forward and that should include existing and not just new scheme members (and lets face it, there's hardly likely to be many of those over the next few years).

ps what constructive comments have you offered so far?

I have already explained what a fair and equitable solution is, and what you are advocating is simply not that!

Your rants are simply rabid and driven by emotion, not logic.

Paul_Herring

marklv wrote: »

"Feel free to answer the point actually made, rather than deliberately re-interpreting it to turn it into a straw-man."

I'm not turning anything into straw. The only things made of straw here are the arguments I'm seeing from those who are chomping at the bit to see the public sector cannibalised in order to feed their egos. Middle managers are needed,

Once more you are deliberately misinterpret my comments and turn them into your own little personal straw-man.

Where did I say to get rid of *all* middle managers? Oh - can't find it? Shame...

I said to get rid of the excess, of which there is a lot.

marklv

"I said to get rid of the excess, of which there is a lot."

What evidence do you have to back up this assertion?

Paul_Herring

marklv wrote: »

"I said to get rid of the excess, of which there is a lot."

What evidence do you have to back up this assertion?

Cure the NHS with far fewer managers

Recent crises in patient care stem from excessive bureaucracy and poor-quality leadership, argues Sir Gerry Robinson

It is almost beyond belief. In just two decades or so, the National Health Service has gone from having virtually no formal management structure, just administrative staff, to this week's announcement that out of a total staff of 1.36 million, 39,900 are managers. Let me put that in context: there are 5,000 more people now employed to tend to organisation than there are consultants – a mere 34,900 – tending to the sick.

Hospital managers - heroes or villains?

The Oxford Times: Council to share top manager

Campaign director, Mark Wallace, said: “If it proves possible for one person to take on two roles, then I think it is a fantastic idea.

“It shows that perhaps there are too many managers in local government, and that councils are both underworking and overpaying them.”

Mark Booty, WODC’s cabinet member for change and improvement, promised residents in the district would not see a change in services.

marklv

These are just opinions, nothing more. I'm looking for impartial analysis and statistics. 39,900 out of 1.6 million is only 2.5% - hardly a big figure for a managerial part of the workforce.

Paul_Herring

marklv wrote: »

These are just opinions, nothing more.

As is what you've been spouting for the past few pages. Apart from the logical fallacies that is.

I'm looking for impartial analysis and statistics.

Then, perhaps you'd like to peruse the ONS web site, and show how there aren't too many managers in the public sector then? Rather than demanding evidence, then poo-pooing the evidence when it turns up by saying "that's not what I asked for!"

39,900 out of 1.6 million is only 2.5%

ONLY? Sheesh. The NHS management population is larger than the population of Rutland, and you're calling it small? Beggars belief.

hardly a big figure for a managerial part of the workforce.

It's a huge figure, considering two decades ago, the (comparative) number was minuscule. And two decades ago, the NHS was being far better managed than it is today. Bring back Matron.

Now - correlation or coincidence - the more managers you have in the NHS, the worse it gets managed?

bendix

marklv wrote: »

Well, that says it all doesn't it? :rotfl:It proves that you are just a clown and a troll.

A successful clown and troll, if you please, and not one who has had to flee to the public sector recently to make provision for their retirement.

It must really grate to have timed it so badly, because despite all your arguments your benefits ARE going to be substantially reduced.

Good luck with that.

Me? Well, I don't care much either way. I won't be here to pay for it :-)

marklv

Paul_Herring wrote: »

As is what you've been spouting for the past few pages. Apart from the logical fallacies that is.

Then, perhaps you'd like to peruse the ONS web site, and show how there aren't too many managers in the public sector then? Rather than demanding evidence, then poo-pooing the evidence when it turns up by saying "that's not what I asked for!"

ONLY? Sheesh. The NHS management population is larger than the population of Rutland, and you're calling it small? Beggars belief.



It's a huge figure, considering two decades ago, the (comparative) number was minuscule. And two decades ago, the NHS was being far better managed than it is today. Bring back Matron.

Now - correlation or coincidence - the more managers you have in the NHS, the worse it gets managed?

Again, all this is just rhetoric. What solid evidence do you have that the problems of the NHS are due to poor management? There are many factors at play, one of which is that colossal amounts of money are spent on employing locums (many from abroad) at rates of up to £100 an hour. A lot of this financial mismanagement is because the government caved in to blackmail from the medical profession, many of whom think they can dictate their salaries and working conditions. The problems with the NHS are far more fundamental than simply ineffective management. We need to look at alternative methods of state healthcare and what is in place in other countries that actually works well.

novice-saver

Here's an idea to save some public sector money:

sack middle managers who have nothing better to do than troll on internet forums.

Marklv, If your I.T. deparment is any use at all, they'll know how much time you spend here.

It's happened in the past in the private sector, so it's not new or difficult to do.


Have a day.

bendix

Lol @ novice-saver. Damn right.

This reminds me of old Sir Humphrey who used to post on here informing us how indispensible his job (which seemed to involve protecting the nation from the firework-related mishaps) was and how rushed off his feet he was, while spending six hours a day on here sharing his wisdom.