How big should my pension pot be ?

marklv

Laughable nonsense! How can you run any major organisation without managers?

bendix

Ahhhhhhh . it's finally falling into place.

You're early 40s, and have spent 20 years in the private sector. Now you've made the move into a management role in the public sector.

No wonder, you feel so passionately about this subject ;-)

marklv

bendix wrote: »

Ahhhhhhh . it's finally falling into place.

You're early 40s, and have spent 20 years in the private sector. Now you've made the move into a management role in the public sector.

No wonder, you feel so passionately about this subject ;-)

Maybe! :beer:

Paul_Herring

marklv wrote: »

Laughable nonsense! How can you run any major organisation without managers?

Perhaps you'd like to reread my point again - here it is with added emphasis:

excessive amounts of (middle)managers

Feel free to answer the point actually made, rather than deliberately re-interpreting it to turn it into a straw-man.

Harry_Powell

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Perhaps you'd like to reread my point again - here it is with added emphasis:



Feel free to answer the point actually made, rather than deliberately re-interpreting it to turn it into a straw-man.

I think that's the trouble with the public sector, no one of any seniority ever leaves so to maintain progression up the grades and spine points, it's either filling "Dead Mens Shoes" or the creation of 'Pretend Manager' roles.

As with many corporate redundancy, if they are going to whittle down the public sector we'll see carnage in the middle management. Senior managers are safe because it'd cost a fortune to get rid and usually they're within stonesthrow of pension age anyway. Junior members of staff are saf(er) because they actually do the work and they're not that well paid, so you'd have to lose a lot of them to make a difference, which would then impact services. I'd be worried if I were in a middle management role in the public sector....

knuckledragger

I thought public sector pensions were all slowly being changed. The New Police Pension Scheme was introduced in 2006 and speaking to a couple of mates who are coppers, they didn't switch to it when given the opportunity after it's introduction. The words TOUCH, BARGEPOLE and IT were mentioned! As years roll on, and current police officers/pensioners die, the burden on the taxpayer should diminish.

marklv

"Feel free to answer the point actually made, rather than deliberately re-interpreting it to turn it into a straw-man."

I'm not turning anything into straw. The only things made of straw here are the arguments I'm seeing from those who are chomping at the bit to see the public sector cannibalised in order to feed their egos. Middle managers are needed, because unlike senior managers and directors, many of whom spend much time on the golf course or having leisurely business lunches, they are the ones on the 'front line'; leading teams, attending tough meetings and having to report (more often than not) bad news to the seniors, who are happy to pass the blame on them when things go wrong but take the credit when things go right. OK, it's not always this extreme, but your get my drift.

Let's take a military analogy. How can you have an army full of privates, corporals, sergeants, with nothing between them and colonels and generals? No lieutenants, captains and majors to be found. Who will lead the men into action? 50 year old colonels with increasing waist sizes?

marklv

knuckledragger wrote: »

I thought public sector pensions were all slowly being changed. The New Police Pension Scheme was introduced in 2006 and speaking to a couple of mates who are coppers, they didn't switch to it when given the opportunity after it's introduction. The words TOUCH, BARGEPOLE and IT were mentioned! As years roll on, and current police officers/pensioners die, the burden on the taxpayer should diminish.

That is the trend all over the public sector. The lucky ones are those who joined in the early 1990s, 80s and earlier.

Old_Slaphead

knuckledragger wrote: »

I thought public sector pensions were all slowly being changed. The New Police Pension Scheme was introduced in 2006 and speaking to a couple of mates who are coppers, they didn't switch to it when given the opportunity after it's introduction. The words TOUCH, BARGEPOLE and IT were mentioned! As years roll on, and current police officers/pensioners die, the burden on the taxpayer should diminish.

Of course they won't change - the 1997 scheme was a ridiculously good scheme whereas the 2006 version is only a very good scheme.

bendix

marklv wrote: »

The only things made of straw here are the arguments I'm seeing from those who are chomping at the bit to see the public sector cannibalised in order to feed their egos.

I would like to publicly state that I want to see the public sector cannibalised.

No offence marklv, because I'm sure you're a genuine bloke. But in my mind, the fact that I am working hard to pay for your retirement as well as my own leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

The nation's debt burden and high spending - sharply personified by public sector pensions on the one hand and welfare dependancy on the other - are adding several years to my working life.