Crunch time for council workers’ golden pensions

baileysbattlebus

The_White_Horse wrote: »

the point is, where are all these overpaid pen pushers going to work?? they won't leave the public sector because their useless non jobs don't exist in the real world and they couldn't cope.

if all teacher's pay was cut 40% where would they all go??? private schools wouldn't even look at half of them, and there wouldn't be enough jobs for them. they would have tio lump it or resign.

You don't have to be a qualified teacher to teach in a private school - so a few of them would find it difficult to teach in a state school -

In state schools I think you have to have QTS or be on a fasttrack course to teach over 5's.

Someone will probably put me right.

carolt

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Where are all these fantastic, well paid jobs in the private sector ? It only really happens in the City of London and that's only a very small part of the UK.

What do teachers get paid ? About £35-40,000? Add in another 20% pension and decent holidays etc. Can they really do vastly better in the private sector?

Maybe a few could but the great majority would find it difficult.

If private sector pay is so high (which it's not) the how come there's such a furore when any public sector job is threatened with outsourcing ?

I can't speak for all public sector workers v all private sector ones - I don't personally know all in either category.

However, of the public sector workers I personally know, compared to the private sector ones (I'm a graduate in my mid-late 30's, if that helps, and all my friends are likewise), without exception, the private sector ones are higher paid - in some cases by far.

Actually, I lie - I can think of one friend, who after a mere 21 years of studying/working his way up the greasy pole, including stints of voluntary work, working overseas as there was no suitable work in the UK, etc, has finally been made a consultant (doctor). His pay is higher than one or two in the private sector. Not many, though. His pay is dwarfed by those of my friends who are accountants, lawyers, bankers, CEO's etc.

I should add that all of these individuals left good universities with good degrees at about the same time - there is no difference in their inherent quality at all. Just some were drawn to jobs helping people, some to those where they would earn more.

If you're seriously suggesting that some people choose to be accountants, say, out of the kindness of their hearts and not because they know they will earn lots of dosh, you're lying. Even my mother (who is an accountant, BTW) did her best to dissuade her children from following the same career path as it was so incredibly dull...

The_White_Horse

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

You don't have to be a qualified teacher to teach in a private school - so a few of them would find it difficult to teach in a state school -

In state schools I think you have to have QTS or be on a fasttrack course to teach over 5's.

Someone will probably put me right.

well, seeing as private schools do better than state schools, it shows that all the teacher training is a load of dross and a further waste of taxpayers money.

MrCarrot

While they're cutting back on the pensions, why don't they also sack all of the people in wooly, made-up public sector jobs that have been created over the years, adding a massive burden to the normal tax payer? If I look in the jobs section of the local newspaper where I live, 90% of it is for council and NHS jobs, and they're not road sweeper, doctor or nurse positions either. Most of them don't sound like real jobs and they're often more highly paid than a useful job in the private sector.

1echidna wrote: »

Oh yes while we are at it lets have ago at bankers, politicians, the sick and unemployed and of course immigrants.

Yes pls.

The_White_Horse

this is a disgrace!!!

http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/902510/head-of-equality-and-diversity/

this is for a fire service in derby!!!! !!!!!!. the country is insane!

baileysbattlebus

The_White_Horse wrote: »

well, seeing as private schools do better than state schools, it shows that all the teacher training is a load of dross and a further waste of taxpayers money.

Not all private schools do better than state schools - the good state schools do as well as the private schools.

There are good state schools and bad - there are good private schools and bad.

In the tables produced by the Times for GCSE results - out of the top 20 schools - 14 are state schools. And 8 out of the top 20 for A levels are state schools.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/a_level_gcse_results/

baileysbattlebus

The_White_Horse wrote: »

this is a disgrace!!!

http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/902510/head-of-equality-and-diversity/

this is for a fire service in derby!!!! !!!!!!. the country is insane!

It's political correctness gone mad.

carolt

The_White_Horse wrote: »

well, seeing as private schools do better than state schools, it shows that all the teacher training is a load of dross and a further waste of taxpayers money.

Private schools do far worse than grammar schools.

Both do better than comprehensives.

The reason? Grammar schools select their pupils on brains - this get top results. Private schools select on wealth (and, where scholarships, on brains also). Thus do a little better than those with no interest in education at all, who regard it as intrinsically worthless and would never dream of paying for it even if they could afford it (the comprehensives).

Obviously, with better pupils and more motivated parents, you get better results.

Says nothing about the teachers.

Speaking as a teacher, you need to be a far better teacher to teach in a rough inner-city comp than in a private school or grammar - far harder to interest and educate those with little interest and less natural ability, with poor facilities and huge classes.

Far, far easier to teach in a private school - tiny classes, better facilities, less discipline problems.

But most teachers won't do it on principle, despite the higher salaries.

SuzieSue

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

Not all private schools do better than state schools - the good state schools do as well as the private schools.

There are good state schools and bad - there are good private schools and bad.

In the tables produced by the Times for GCSE results - out of the top 20 schools - 14 are state schools. And 8 out of the top 20 for A levels are state schools.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/a_level_gcse_results/

Don't those figures tell you everything you need to know about the dire state of our education system - probably fewer than 1% of the population goes to a private school, but they dominate the league tables.

SuzieSue

carolt wrote: »

Obviously, with better pupils and more motivated parents, you get better results.

Says nothing about the teachers.


.

No, but it says everything about what is wrong with this country and in particular what is wrong with our education system.