Unenforceability & Template Letters

bankkiller

never-in-doubt wrote: »

See post #786

Thanks,
I will do that first thing tommorow morning!
I wonder what they are going to send me in response!:beer:

never-in-doubt

bankkiller wrote: »

So do you reckon there is a good chance that it won't be enforceable?
What sort of response do you think they will send me after I send them that letter above!
Or do you think I should wait until I get all the papers from the SAR request i sent them?
I should be getting the SAR request within the next week I should think, according to when I posted it.

Why did you SAR them, what purpose? No need to do this.... you can just stop paying when they mess up - a SAR may provide a true copy (costing £10) when if they have it and you stop paying until they provide a copy, they will send you it for free..... basically a SAR is a waste of £10...:D

Regardless of the SAR content - you should still send the letter to let them know you're disputing the enforceability and see what they send back.

They will probably argue with you in which case they will point out why they believe it is and then we'll argue back telling them where is isn't..... If it does turn out to be enforceable, then you can consider making a F&F offer in a lump sum in exchange for default removal and erasure or you threaten to ignore them and await statute barred (limitation)....

bankkiller

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Why did you SAR them, what purpose? No need to do this.... you can just stop paying when they mess up - a SAR may provide a true copy (costing £10) when if they have it and you stop paying until they provide a copy, they will send you it for free..... basically a SAR is a waste of £10...:D

Regardless of the SAR content - you should still send the letter to let them know you're disputing the enforceability and see what they send back.

They will probably argue with you in which case they will point out why they believe it is and then we'll argue back telling them where is isn't..... If it does turn out to be enforceable, then you can consider making a F&F offer in a lump sum in exchange for default removal and erasure or you threaten to ignore them and await statute barred (limitation)....

I sent the SAR a few days after the 1st CCA letter, as I read somewhere to do both just in case they try to mess me around! Well, i'm definitely sending the letter tommorow morning now, and then i'll post up here when I get the reply.
Thanks for the help, I just have to wait now and see what they say! Still, if everything turns out positive, it could be the best £11 i've ever spent in my life. Here's hoping!
Thanks guys for helping me out.

Rhi_Rhi_2

Hi N-I-D, you seem to be the man in the know, I wonder if you can help me, Im new to the forum too and not sure Im doing this right.

Im having some trouble with HSBC, I took out a loan in before 2007, I was told originally that the loan was over 7 years, when I rang earlier this year to check how long was left they advised me that the loan was over 8 years. I was never given any documentation at the time of the loan.

I wrote to them requesting the CCA the confirmed they do not have a copy of my signed agreement, I gave them another 30 days through a company called fair judgement (free service) who I cannot get hold of now for love nor money. They wrote back confirming they do not have a copy of the signed agreement but have sent a mock up of what it would have looked like????????They say that under the consumer credit act this is sufficient.
They also upheld my claim for PPI mis-selling and are willing to refund me 4K but only if I sign a new CCA to re-structure without the PPI. Surely without signed docs this is unenforceable?
Is it legal that until I sign a new CCA they wont give me the refund?
Can you please point me in the right direction?, Ive read all the letter templates and not sure which one would apply to my situation, the account in dispute section 10 seems the one I should go for? am I right or just completely blonde

Thanks for your time
Rhi

never-in-doubt

Rhi_Rhi wrote: »

Hi N-I-D, you seem to be the man in the know, I wonder if you can help me, Im new to the forum too and not sure Im doing this right.

Im having some trouble with HSBC, I took out a loan in before 2007, I was told originally that the loan was over 7 years, when I rang earlier this year to check how long was left they advised me that the loan was over 8 years. I was never given any documentation at the time of the loan.

I wrote to them requesting the CCA the confirmed they do not have a copy of my signed agreement, I gave them another 30 days through a company called fair judgement (free service) who I cannot get hold of now for love nor money. They wrote back confirming they do not have a copy of the signed agreement but have sent a mock up of what it would have looked like????????They say that under the consumer credit act this is sufficient.
They also upheld my claim for PPI mis-selling and are willing to refund me 4K but only if I sign a new CCA to re-structure without the PPI. Surely without signed docs this is unenforceable?
Is it legal that until I sign a new CCA they wont give me the refund?
Can you please point me in the right direction?, Ive read all the letter templates and not sure which one would apply to my situation, the account in dispute section 10 seems the one I should go for? am I right or just completely blonde

Thanks for your time
Rhi

Hiya

Ok, classic case of double jeopardy (on you i'm afraid) - you basically have 2 options:

1. Cash in the £4k refund by signing a new CCA (meaning you'll have to repay the balance)
2. Walk away with no debt but a default

So you need to work out what is best for you, i.e. if you already have defaults then option 2 would be best - if you have an otherwise good credit file then option 1 would be better suited. See where i'm coming from here?

So, in essence, assume that they don;t have a CCA the debt is now unenforceable which means you owe nothing - especially if you know you never signed anything at the time you took it out. They can mock one but if you SAR them they will have to send the original copy - however being MSE and all that, i'd suggest you claim unenforceability and walk away owing nothing. They may refund the PPI onto the original debt and not send you a cheque - bear that in mind

You need to establish what you want and whether you want or already have a default then i'll be able to advise better

Rhi_Rhi_2

Thanks NID for such a quick response, my creditfile is trashed due to an ex not being able to buy me out of my old house, left him with the equity and then he stopped paying nearly having it repossessed, dragging my creditfile down with him.

never-in-doubt

Rhi_Rhi wrote: »

Thanks NID for such a quick response, my creditfile is trashed due to an ex not being able to buy me out of my old house, left him with the equity and then he stopped paying nearly having it repossessed, dragging my creditfile down with him.

Ok, so you have to play the game.

Send a letter in confirming you want a cheque sending for the refund of PPI but are not prepared to sign a new CCA as this is not necessary and if they refuse to comply then you'll seek guidance from the FOS so request a cheque or their final response letter to allow you to take it further - do not mention unenforceability for the time being.

(there is no guidance and the bank are trying their luck probably willing to lose £4k and get half back as opposed to you claiming unenforceability and repaying £0!)

Have a think lol - its actually quite evident eh?

Do not send any more unenforceable letters just yet - you want to do a smash and grab and get the £4k back then claim unenforceability lol :rotfl:

Rhi_Rhi_2

NID You're a diamond, about an hour ago I was so confused, now you've shown me the light so to speak

Thanks again
Rhi x:jx

never-in-doubt

Rhi_Rhi wrote: »

NID You're a diamond, about an hour ago I was so confused, now you've shown me the light so to speak

Thanks again
Rhi x:jx

Hi - no probs, keep us posted and just think before acting so they don't catch you out - if anything come here first and we'll help you keep it on track

scott9c

Hi NID,

Thank you very much for your response:T. This has gave me some motivation to continue!!
I had already sent the letter to B.O.S re: failure to comply with my request. Will i send this also or await a response first. i will certainly post of these two tommorow to Barclaycard and Lloyds. Should i also join Experian again to monitor my credit report?? Also i keep reading about SAR..what is that???

i also remembered that the BOS card was taken out in 1994 with First National and BOS took them over. This will be the likely reason that they cannot locate a CCA.... in my favour for a change!!

Will the credit file be the main problem?? I have a mortgage and do not really want to have a bad credit history?

Thanks again and i will keep you posted.

Scott :beer:

never-in-doubt wrote: »

You treat all 3 the same - they have all failed your CCA Request in line with s.88 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Therefore send the same letter to all 3 lenders - i've amended this from the main template to suit your need. Just add the date in the first paragraph and delete the text in para 2 after adding 14 days from the date you sent it...

Remember to attach a copy of your original request.

You should cease payments to all 3 accounts forthwith.