Unenforceability & Template Letters

terimon

That actually did cross my mind Captain but i am following NID to the letter because his advice has been superb!

bankkiller

bankkiller wrote: »

Hi
thats how they sent me it! its all dark on the copy they sent me, I scanned it in exactly as they sent me it.
what should I do now? which letter should I send them?
Do I need to ask for a more legible copy or will it take too long, and should I now send them letter 4.
Shall I send them Letter 4, the CCA request letter, as I have now received the CCA but it doesn't meet the agreed terms.
please advise if you can!
I will brighten up the second part and reupload again so you can read it properly.
thanks

hi, i've uploaded a much bigger sized version of the scan.




If anyone can advise on whether this is unenforceable, please let me know, and which letter I need to send them next. The idiots sent me a paper thats virtually not readable, the scums!

captainhaggis

terimon wrote: »

That actually did cross my mind Captain but i am following NID to the letter because his advice has been superb!

Good course of action, Terimon. NID is the absolute authority on all things unenforceability! Follow his advice and you'll not go wrong. The man's my hero.

captainhaggis

bankkiller wrote: »

hi, i've uploaded a much bigger sized version of the scan.




If anyone can advise on whether this is unenforceable, please let me know, and which letter I need to send them next. The idiots sent me a paper thats virtually not readable, the scums!

Wait to hear for sure from Dark Convict or NID but from the bits and bobs I've picked up from those here here I'd be inclined to say "HELL NO"!

The credit agreements there seems to form part of the application form itself and that, right off the bat, is a no-no. The agreement part of the form is lacking almost all of the prescribed terms and there doesn't appear to be a signature on behalf of the bank. I doubt they'll have kept that out as they are legally allowed to do because they have blacked-out everything else. I suspect it was never there.

I believe that the second page you have there is completely irrelevant. The CCA must be a single page document according to a post on the last page.

I think you're golden!

It looks to me as as though you signed up in a branch and the branch faxed the documents to head office for storeage. The fax didn't transmit particularly well but they didn't bother to chase it up. Probably hadn't heard the name "Never In Doubt" back then.

captainhaggis

On second thoughts, the second page looks like a CCA. Behind the black crap, did you sign it do you remember?

THAT page seems to be OK but you might be alright if it isn't deemed legible.

never-in-doubt

terimon wrote: »

I am beginning to confuse myself now

Do i send NatWest a letter now?

Sorry for being so stupid!:embarasse

No, you send the letter I done for you direct to each of the 3 CRA's..... you're basically sneaking in the back door and getting them to remove the libellous data or you'll sue them - i.e. scare them into removing it until the lender (natpest) prove they complied with the default legislation in s.87/s.88....

Make sense?

Regards to making an offer to remove default, leave that for the time being until you see what the CRA's come back with - if they remove the default you're sorted (for free).... worth a go isn't it?

never-in-doubt

bankkiller wrote: »

Hi
thats how they sent me it! its all dark on the copy they sent me, I scanned it in exactly as they sent me it.
what should I do now? which letter should I send them?
Do I need to ask for a more legible copy or will it take too long, and should I now send them letter 4.
Shall I send them Letter 4, the CCA request letter, as I have now received the CCA but it doesn't meet the agreed terms.
please advise if you can!
I will brighten up the second part and reupload again so you can read it properly.
thanks

No it doesn't appear to be an enforceable agreement so i'd call their bluff and send the following letter to them... (don't tell them why it is not enforceable, let them tell you why they believe it is!

CCA Request Query Letter

Dear Sirs,

Account No: XXXXXXXX

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to you requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account. In response to this request I was supplied a document, a copy of which is attached, which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent, purporting to be a credit agreement, does not contain all of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say all of the terms are not present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection;

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40.

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

bankkiller

captainhaggis wrote: »

On second thoughts, the second page looks like a CCA. Behind the black crap, did you sign it do you remember?

THAT page seems to be OK but you might be alright if it isn't deemed legible.

the first page is what was signed by me, i put in name, address, and signed. I just removed my details and account number before uploading the pics.
I can't remember the second page being like that. I'm pretty sure it was a another set of documents.

But thats what Lloyds sent me after i requested the CCA.

Hopefully, one of you guys can help me out on what to do next.
Thanks again!

never-in-doubt

See post #786

bankkiller

never-in-doubt wrote: »

No it doesn't appear to be an enforceable agreement so i'd call their bluff and send the following letter to them... (don't tell them why it is not enforceable, let them tell you why they believe it is!

So do you reckon there is a good chance that it won't be enforceable?
I should also be getting the SAR request within the next week I should think, according to when I posted it.
I will also be persuing them for excessive charges too, as i've been constantly charged for so many years.
I hope I can get this resolved finally, give me some breathing space!