Warm Front Grant saved me a fortune!

Elhall_2

Sorry I’ve not been around for a while, been very ill. I’ve been reading through your posts and have the following tip-bits of information. Remember, I was on the other side, I know the scheme and worked for an installing company.

Lady K
As you’ve already been told, installation should only take a day, prob with a follow-up visit from the electric. His work will prob take about half a day. Don’t wait too long, and be free with your calls asking for this to be done.

Taking the boiler out. The inspector should have checked the boiler. To be honest he should have got into the loft and checked to see all the connections and condition of the boiler. If it could not be moved at that point then he should have told you. Yes, there is H&S to consider. The H&S of the plumbers, however, the company should make provision for the boilers removeal. It’s in the price for clearing and making good. Only if the boiler is too big to fit through the small whole will they get away with it. This goes for cylinders and water tanks as well.

MargaretClare
According to WF guidelines the tecniqual department for WF have 5 days to pass/fail your quote. It should only take longer if WF don’t agree with something that has been quoted or the company haven’t given them enough information. Phone them again. Given that it’s that time of year it will take longer for the boiler & parts to come in, and for a fitting time. You can prob write off 2 weeks just for that. I would be pushing for a end of Jan beginning of Feb date myself.

Talleymanjohn
Ok, for a start you seem to have some misunderstanding about the scheme, so let me set some things straight before you start complaining and getting off on a bad foot.
The scheme has SET prices, given by DEFRA. A different installer on the scheme, while he might install the work in a different way, will not be ABLE to charge you differently. Each set piece of work, from changing a pump or TRV to installing a Boiler has a set value. Whoever the installer was HAD to go BY-THE-RULES!
There are set boilers on the scheme. These are again chosen by DEFRA and the installer choose which boiler to go into the house. He can’t just put in any boiler. This is regulated by the Quality Control Inspectors that follow around to EVERY job. If the wrong boiler has been put in, if a terminal guard hasn’t been fitted (grill over flue), if there is a screw missing from the pipework… they find it and the installers HAVE to put it right or be booted from the scheme.
The cable running across the floor, sometimes this does happen, but our company (and every one that worked for WF) made an effort to get there same-day or within 2 days if that person was especially in danger of tripping, either because of poor sight or if they couldn’t walk well. Phone and explain the situation to the installers. Explain that there is a real danger of an accident. If they don’t get out there pretty quick then complain.
The boiler won’t “blow”, there are fail safes… however you can damage the boiler if the pump is off and the boiler is on. The boiler over heats basically.
I think that you are over exaggerating on the rip-off front, I really do. Having seen how many people this has helped. As for the service, it is possible that you have received bad service from this ONE company, however if they do that too oftern they will be booted from the scheme. You have NO idea of the paperwork, insurance, Health and Safety proofs ect that each company has to go through to get onto the scheme. To then stay on it there are targets that they have to meet which are reviewed MONTHLY.
“Why should we get fleeced for this lot?” So basically you think that those without heating, those that can’t afford to get heating, those like these other fine people on this thread don’t deserve to get help getting their heating??
Write to Warmfront and DEFRA, it is those that are running the scheme after all. They have to meet targets the same way that every installer has to.

SambaRamba
It doesn’t matter how long you have been in your home. It only matters if you are intending to move out. The scheme is there to provide heating for those that can’t afford it. Not to increase your house value. So go ahead and apply.

margaretclare

Hi Elhall, very sorry you've been ill. I trust you're on the road to recovery now?

I've taken your advice on board. I phoned WarmFront Monday and Friday last week, then again today (Monday) and will phone them again in a few days' time. We're away between 22nd and 28th December but I'd like some kind of an idea about timescale before we go off on our 'Christmas getaway'! The problem has been, so far, the 2 months' delay between the surveyors' visit early in October and the quotation being submitted to WarmFront. The man I spoke to on the WF helpline a week ago said that was 'unacceptable' so that may be a black mark against that particular company!

Elhall, you say 'the scheme is there to provide heating for those that can't afford it' but I qualify because I'm on Attendance Allowance which is NOT means-tested. We COULD afford it, but as I qualify, why shouldn't I? Talleymanjohn makes the point about taxpayers. I should have picked up on this earlier, but here's my fourpence - DH and I are STILL taxpayers and we're likely to be paying tax for the rest of our lives. I don't see why we shouldn't apply for something for which we qualify. I realise we are fortunate. We're not cold at present, and a heating upgrade was going to be next year's 'big project' after the roof replacement which was this year's.

I agree the scheme is not designed to increase your house value. But it will! No escaping that. I bumped into a local estate agent a few days ago - he remembers me from when he sold me this place in 1990, good memory he's got!! - and he said it's a nightmare, he can't keep up with having to re-value all the properties almost on a weekly basis.

Margaret

Elhall_2

The delay was unacceptable. How they can keep in their timeline is beyond me. It sounds as if they lost you in the system and are not atempting to out it right. With the best will in the world, paperwork will go mising. But when it happened at our place the person who had had the delay (not their fault) was pushed through. They'd already done their waiting after all. It just seems like they are dragging their feet. Funny that I'm getting so fustrated for you.

The house value thing... yes. Of cause it will increase you value. However I know that some poeple, who did qualify, only applied because they were selling their house and it would sell better because of it. When that was found out, even if we were installing the next day, the application was cancelled and nothing was done. It was the answer to the opposite end of a different question. It doesn't matter how long you have lived at a property before appling, only that you are intending on living there and aren't looking to improve the chances of selling your house at the tax-payers expence.

Hope that clears things a little

margaretclare

Hi Elhall

Thanks for your response. We had already enquired about a replacement boiler and got some quotes, this was before we knew about WarmFront and the roof repair became more urgent than a replacement boiler, so the roof became this year's 'big project' (and with the high winds we've had lately, aren't we glad we got it done!!) So the replacement boiler was planned to be next year's 'big project'.

If we are messed about much more we will go for it ourselves, but not until the New Year because we're going away over Christmas and then again in mid-January. And no, we are not planning to move from here until they carry us out in a box. Amazing the crazy way prices have gone though - we probably added another £20K to the value with the replacement roof, which only cost us £3,500, so a more modern boiler and up-to-date controls will inevitably add some. These jerry-built little 1930s bungalows are now selling for up to £170,000 depending on how well they're maintained etc. After the boiler, the only thing that needs doing - next year's project - will be to re-pave the drive and parking area at the front. The man who did the roof also does drives!

I feel so sorry for people who really have no option, who couldn't pay for it themselves. It's like the argument about things like Child Benefit, which in many cases goes to those who don't need it, and that's taxpayers' money too. DH was telling me that in a previous existence he used to set up investment schemes for parents who didn't need their Child Benefit - it went straight into savings for the child to mature at age 18, the parents didn't even see it. And there are those of us who don't need the £200 winter fuel payment and the £10 Christmas bonus, that's taxpayers' money too, and we don't all *need* it.

I will definitely phone WF again in a few days' time.

Margaret

Elhall_2

I know what you mean with house prices. I've done about £3k worth of work on my house, the value has near doubled in the 3 years I've had it. Unfortunatly, with my morgage and it being at the bottom of the housing ladder I'm stuck here for around another 5 years. It's so depressing with the *little darlings* around our way causing all the damage that I end up having to pay out for.
My neighbours don't seem to have any heating and I'm constantly in a cold house dispite having the heating on all the time. Not anything more can be done to the house to make it warmer either... it's a !!!!!!.

Lady_K

Its been fitted with a few hicups but or course I'm very pleased its been done. The electrician has to come back within the next 10 working days to fit the controls its now just running from the plug but if thats accidentally turned off my water wont work so I'll have to put a big notice on it so I don't forget.

The boiler has stayed where it is but thats fine so long as I know its disconnected and safe. They didn't mention anything about the disconnection of the elec part to it though but I pressume the electrician will do that when he comes to fit the controls.

When bleeding the radiators after fitting they hadnt got a key that fitted properly so they used other tools to do them, they managed ok on all but 2 of them but they wore away the nut head on 2 of them so it was just spinning round with no grip so now they can no longer be bled at all and they only heat up half way. He then told me it wasnt thier problem they just fit the boiler and it would be up to me to get new radiators, the installer even said hed do them me cheaper if I wanted him to do it on his way by one day. I wasnt happy because those radiator bleed heads were perfectly fine before they forced them and I had told them I would go next door to get one before they forced them but they went ahead.

I said that wf had said they only change radiators if they are found to be faulty when the work is done but he then said I had used all my grant but I told him I knew I hadnt as it was £2400 and I would ring warmfront. He then rang his boss himself and they got back after speaking to warmfront to say I could have them but he will do those after christmas. I'm not sure if I have to pay anything but I'll give up my draught proofing if nes as I don't really need it, its only for 1 door and the cat flap lets in so much cold draught proofing wouldnt make any difference.

Also they removed 4 redundant pipes from my bathroom and capped them off, it was the biggest eyesore I couldnt believe it and would rather have had them left in doing nothing. They looked like a load of bagpipes 1/4 way up the wall all different lengths. I said I thought they were being capped off under the floorboards but he said he didnt think I'd want the floor up, he could have asked me.

In the kitchen below the boiler around the pipe, was a fixed descaler, on top of the worktop, it is a big blue and white big tin shaped type thing with writing on it, it stuck out like a sore thumb! I couldnt believe it was stuck there right on the worktop. I said why does that have to go there and he said they have to be on show but I told him I had never seen one of those in anyones house on show ever and I didnt see why it had to be on show why couldnt it be in the cupboard below it and he said because you have to change it every 2 years so it should be easy to get to. I dont have much worktop space in my kitchen and this was a big problem. He called his boss and then agreed to move it, its much better now in the cupboiard below out of the way and can still be got to. I just dont know why on earth they stuck it there in the first place.

He got to the paperwork and I had to sign the paper saying I was happy with the work he had done... I knew I'd find it hard to live with those bagpipes in the bathroom so I just had to say again that I had to admit I wasnt happy... they just looked so terrible and your eye was drawn to them. He reluctantly said ok hed take the floorboards up and have a look, he has moved 2 of them but left 2 as he said they are too close to the radiator but its better than it was.

I think they must think I'm one of the fussiest people they have done. I felt bad saying anything but they are still getting paid to do a job properly and I'm happier now these things have been sorted and the radiators will be. I felt worse too as I had got buiscuts and cake ect in for them specially but there was so much stuff around I couldnt get to the kitchen to do them anything apart from the first cup when they came. The entire house was taken over and I had to stay in the living room, couldnt even get to the loo

They did try and sort the things out though when I did complain, some wouldnt have done that so I'm grateful that it got sorted eventually, well will be once the radiators are done. The whole house is a tip though like a building site but I don't mind just glad its done

margaretclare

Elhall, have you got any comments to make on the above sorry saga? DH has read it just now and his comment is 'Amazing - absolutely bl**dy amazing. If anything like that happens here the blokes will be out the door and on their bikes within 10 minutes'.

I am seriously, seriously considering whether it is worth us waiting 9 months for this kind of shoddy workmanship. Plumbers and heating engineers - these guys should be wearing big hats and carrying a lasso. Biscuits and cake - they should be so lucky!!!

OTOH it is unlikely that we would get any of the local installers around here to fit us in this side of Christmas/New Year, and we're going to be away in any case. So I guess we will wait a bit longer and see. Don't be too grateful, Lady_K, these guys are getting paid to do a job and you are the customer. As someone else has pointed out, it's all taxpayers' money and we are the taxpayers. We are entitled not to have the house left as an eyesore - would they want to live in it, would anyone, why should it be any different because of age and disabilities?

DH says 'call himself a plumber and hasn't got a radiator bleeding key?' Fortunately, we have one in this house, have had it for years, and they only cost pennies!!

I am appalled. I am really not sure this is worth waiting for at all.

Margaret

Lady_K

Well there were lots of other things but I thought a massive list would look terrible. I couldnt answer the door for boxes and buckets of stuff taking over the whole hall and kitchen, it was a safety hazzard me going out of the living room with all that around there were tools everywhere just strewn all over the floor. The kitchen floor was just pools of water as they left the door open and were going in and out. I did try to answer the door at one stage when something was delivered and only just stopped myself from falling over. The delivey man had to go round the back and they had to pass it me.

They have made ladders in the newly laid carpet in various places in the bedroom, they just ripped the carpets up willy nilly. The man also said oh well your stairs and landing carpet has just about had it anyway hasnt it. It might not be brilliant but I cant afford another.

Not sure if this matters too but they didnt even know one radiator existed till everything had been done, the one in the downstairs loo. I went to check it for air and told them that one was only half warm too and he said he didnt even know there was one in there. I wasnt sure if this might have affected the draining down of the system and power flushing or not but they missed that one out anyway, I did ask him that but he didnt answer me. I'm not even sure if they power flushed it really. To find out I asked him what power flushing was and he said draining down the system, I said oh because warmfront said that was something that had to be done and I wasnt sure what it was. He said well weve done a bit but we will do a bit more in a bit but they had already filled the systen then so I didnt understand how they could. I just thought something like that would make a noise.

He also actually said the radiators warming up only half way should be acceptable as thier job was just to fit a boiler and he said it was plenty warm enough in the bathroom and bedroom in his opinion.

They have sawn the bottom wood trim from the kitchen wall cupboard off too short so it cant be re-fitted. I asked them where things were and they had left them on top of the kitchen wall units where I cant see or get them and I would have been looking all over for them if I hadnt have asked

Elhall_2

Sounds a mess, certainly not the standard I would expect from WF.

There will be an inspector coming around. Make a list of everything that hasn't been fitted to your satisfaction and go through it with the inspector. No Rad key!! I can't believe it, and to damage your rads in the process then expect you to pay for it! No way, complain! Take photos if you can.

To be fair to the company, give them one chance to put it right. It could be a new team working for the company, however if the company can't be bothered then complain for all you're worth. You said that you'd been talking Vicky at the call centre? She's very good and WF will uphold your complaint and make it right. If you don't want those engineers back you don't have to. There were a number of times that we were called in to put other work right. When you go through to WF ask for a manager, the call centre is very good, but they can't actually do anything.

For the record, the fines that they will get and the prospect of being thrown off the scheme should get things working. Eaga do not like bad press any more than anyone else. I can't see how an inspector would 'pass' the work that you discribe. Be sure to tell the inspector that they wanted YOU to pay for new rads after they broke them. Point out that you felt pressered into signing. Infact, I'd phone them today and ASK for an inspector because you are not happy, that'll get the ball rolling and should mean that you'll get the electrics done quicker as well.

margaretclare

I would endorse every word that Elhall has written above. Lady_K, complain, complain, complain!!!! Get on the phone. Possibly these guys are institutionally-sexist and think it's OK because you're a woman on your own. Making a mess of your newly-laid carpets - don't they know the dangers to older people in uneven carpets, the danger of tripping and falling? More older people die as a result of falls than of anything else, and the most common place to fall is in your own home.

Like I said, don't be too grateful! Big hats and spurs is what comes to mind...

Very best wishes

Margaret