stair bannister - renting - should i have one

dave123dave123

evosy1978 wrote: »

hello,

not long moved into our rented house via an estate agent. the staircase does not have a rail/bannister, my girlfriend is pregnant an has just commented that she would like one to aid her coming down the stairs, ... Someone mentioned to me that it should be provided by law????/

Can anyone help and tell me if this is true and where I stand and if i gota pay for it myself..

thank in advance.;)

just call yr building control at your local council it should be yes

Welshwoofs

Gawd Health & Safety most certainly does get my back up....

I don't know whether anyone saw the documentary a month or so back about the H&S inspectors? There was one chap who was warning the documentary makers that the acorns on his drive where a 'slipping hazard'. He was the sort of guy you could imagine probably has a brown paper collection and would spend 2 hours telling you about it at dinner parties. There was also some summer fair thing on the program where a field was being ultilised as a carpark and they actually had to carpet the entrance of the field down to the road in case anyone slipped on the mud.

I'm quite sure H&S people can clobber LLs (..and businesses, charities, people trying to put on summer fairs etc etc) for any number of things but it really does depress the hell out of me that we've become so risk averse in our society that anything spontaneous or beautiful immediately has to be buried under 10 feet of red tape and 'safety' measures.

barnaby-bear

clutton wrote: »

"Common sense" does not enter into HHSRS regs - bannister rails are almost certainly a grade 2 risk ... i have a property which had landing upright rails 2 cms too wide and even tho 3 adults (none under 16 stones) were moving in - the council made me replace the rails "in case a child fell through"

i also had to do some work in the yard "in case the tenant fell at night when they were hanging out their washing"

i think a council HHSRS surveyor would insist on a handrail on all stairs - irrespective of the age/condition of any tenant

But was this a LHA/council funded tenancy where the customer is the council and therefore they had the opportunity to request the work before ok-ing the tenancy.... it's very different requesting things pre-tenancy at an opportunity when tenant-LL can negotiate rent/repairs/enhancements but to move into a property and then try to force a LL to change things by throwing H&S, building regs (most of which seem misinterpretted here), council officials seems likely to annoy the LL - he may decide H&S and a kid in the house will be trouble and section 21 the issue away at the end of the AST.

It might be easiest to ask the LL if you can put one in - (get permission in writing as per picture hooks - so no deposit witheld for silly reasons) - go to B&Q buy handrail for £25 http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9976970&fh_view_size=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatal!!!1%2fen_GB&fh_search=handrail&fh_eds=%C3%9F&fh_refview=search&ts=1249455597251&isSearch=true
put it up yourself....

But you recently took on a tenancy as seen and if you are having issues now - is this property really suitable with a baby? How many adaptations will you need to make it safe?

tbs624

barnaby-bear wrote: »

But was this a LHA/council funded tenancy where the customer is the council and therefore they had the opportunity to request the work before ok-ing the tenancy.... it's very different requesting things pre-tenancy at an opportunity when tenant-LL can negotiate rent/repairs/enhancements but to move into a property and then try to force a LL to change things by throwing H&S, building regs (most of which seem misinterpretted here), council officials seems likely to annoy the LL - he may decide H&S and a kid in the house will be trouble and section 21 the issue away at the end of the AST.

*All* private sector rental properties may be assessed by Council officers under HHSRS, not just those let to Ts on LHA. Several of us have suggested that the T merely ask the LL (in writing) in the first instance - the information about HHSRS/Building regs is back up information.

Yes, H&S can appear as a killjoy in many areas of life *but* check out the figures for accidents on stairs without appropriate handrails. It's irrelevant that people have previously lived, and currently live, without this, that or the other. When someone pays a LL to provide accommodation, that LL owes the T a duty of care and has to be able to demonstrate "due diligence". If you follow some of your argument through, then any T who moves in to any property is "accepting" whatever is in place at the start, whether its shoddy gas/electrical equipment, dodgy doorstep, rot and damp and so on.

What we're talking about here is an outlay for the LL of around £50-60 quid max. Now, if the LL had his T fall and make a claim he could probably expect his LL insurance premium to rise by that amount.

Say the T installs the handrail (badly) himself because the LL won't get it done when asked to: handrail comes away from wall, T injured. LL has still clearly failed to show due diligence. Then watch said LL try to deduct from the Ts deposit for damage to the wall.........

The daft thing is that we're all discussing the ins and outs of it in this thread , and the probability is that when/if the T asks in the right way, the LL will just get it done, with no retaliatory S21 in sight.

Welshwoofs

tbs624 wrote: »

The daft thing is that we're all discussing the ins and outs of it in this thread , and the probability is that when/if the T asks in the right way, the LL will just get it done, with no retaliatory S21 in sight.

You are most likely right! Still it's an interesting thread for people like me thinking (rather unwillingly) of renting out. I grew up in some houses which had winding stone staircases and all sorts of odd nooks and crannies which no doubt the local H&S inspector would hate and it worries me that they can do such things as demand uprights on a landing to be moved by 3cm 'in case a child falls through'. To my mind, that's absolutely bloody ridiculous.

All this has most definitely persuaded me of something I had in mind though - IF I rent (and I'm rapidly going off the idea), there's no way in hell I'm renting to anyone about to have, or already having children. Not just because it looks to be a total hassle, but also because my neighbour can't stand kids so it'd not be fair on her to have the noise and running around (shared access along back of cottages).

I have no doubt H&S would have a field day on my house too - it's an old cottage so we have an enclosed staircase with no hand rail. We have open fires. We have a stream running through the bottom of the garden and if people want to hang their washing out at night they'll certainly have to negotiate an apple orchard to do it :rolleyes:

clutton_2

WW - how i agree with many of your sentiments ... this one property was inspected by the council HHSRS surveyor as i foolishly decided to join the local council's accreditation scheme - never again.

The one thing which i considered dangerous which they found (an exposed cable in the roof) - after 4 months of the council NOT doing the work (in spite of promising to do it) - i just got on and did it myself. THe local HHSRS manager tried to tell me that she knew more about electrical regs than my 30-years-qualifed-NICCEI electrician ... grant me patience someone .....

18 months later they have still not completed the Grade 1 (compulsory) job they identied and which they said they would pay for (uneven flag stones in the back yard)

theartfullodger

intsnotfair.. stated...

I don't have a clue what you mean about £5 to a charity

I had offered...

£5 to your nominated non-educational charity if it was the HSE (Health & Safety Executive)

What I mean is, if your command (as in " I recently got commanded by the HSE to fit a handrail to a cellar ", #27 in this thread I think ) really was from the "Health & Safety Executive" I will gladly donate £5 to whichever charity you nominate (non-educational as I feel Eton has enough already...) eg Battersea Dog's 'ome.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am saying i don't believe you when you say the command was from the HSE, but would consider it too impolite to accuse you directly of being a liar..

Bung up an image of the letter & I'll pay.

So sorry my offer was so unclear to you...

Cheers!

Lodger

theartfullodger

Think my £5 is safe:
Terminological inexactitude regarding HSE from "itsnotfair"?? Perhaps itsnotfair??


Cheers!

Lodger

vegasvisitor

We took our handrails down when we last redecorated, and decided it looked better down. I did keep them in the cupboard just in case. As I prefer it without handrail (we don't have any sort of mobility problems), I would be a bit miffed if I rented my house out and someone screwed on onto the wall.

However, that's just me - my mother in law moans about the lack of handrail despite not having mobility problems and then goes down our stairs one at a time same foot first each time. I have no idea why - maybe it's a confidence thing? I can't imagine actually using handrails unless elderly/immobile anyway.

My advice would be to check with the landlord and see how it is received. If it was important to you then perhaps you should have looked for a house with a handrail before renting. The landlord may well be happy to let you and/or pay for a handrail. You won't know until you ask.

jangor_2

I know absolutely zilch about Health & Safety Laws but I do know that staircases without bannisters can be very dangerous indeed. Many years ago I bought a house (not thinking) without bannisters or a stair rail on one side. I couldn't believe how many times I nearly went over while trying to carry small children, climbing with my arms full of laundry etc. or incorrectly placing my foot. I installed bannisters very quickly indeed. A friend also moved into a property without a stair handrail and sadly she did slip and fell over the side, fracturing both legs. I also work in a hospital and it is surprising (or perhaps not) the number of patients of all different ages who have been injured whilst negotiating stairs. Bannisters are to me an essential part of a staircase. Whether it is a LL's responsibility to install a bannister I do not know.