Buy to let fever?

kayleigh

I am into BTL - have 5 properties - 1 is mortgage free - should really get it mortgaged and pay off my own with the income - so I have something I can claim against tax.

3 of the others make money - £100-£120 per month - the 4th loses £75 per month - middle of Edinburgh - paid too much - too much competition from other buy to lets.

I am keeping the one which makes a loss - it is valued at 130k - with the hope in 18 years time - I will have a flat worth at todays price 130k - which I have paid only 18k (£75 * 12 months * 20 years) for - if that makes sense.

No ISA, etc will get you anything close to such a return.

meanmachine_2

The trouble is, that from 2010 the working population is going to go into major decline.

It happened in Japan and with current birth rates, it'll happen here.

You better hope those migrants get well paid jobs, otherwise there might not be anyone to sell your place to.

After all, you know what old people are like - they're very careful with their money (smart things), so the service sector is likely to take a big hit.

Still, that's the risk you take and I can't deny that, at this current snapshot in time, property has been a one way bet.

But all things balance out in the end.

Dan29

meanmachine wrote:

Oh yes, I see where you're coming from with your reasoned, logical arguments. Bravo sir.

Now go buy some stock options from that shoe shine boy round the corner. :rolleyes:

I must have missed the reasoned, logical argument behind it being "impossible to make money". Is that because you don't know what you're talking about?

meanmachine_2

Dan29 wrote:

I must have missed the reasoned, logical argument behind it being "impossible to make money". Is that because you don't know what you're talking about?

Well you see this is why BTL at today's pri....

Ah forget it. You clearly operate on a different planet to me where yields don't matter.

By the way, I should qualify my "impossible" statement. At today's prices it's virtually impossible, I'd argue.

although I know nothing compared to property geniuses (genii?) Phil and Kirsty.

I just wonder how they and indeed anyone heavily invested will make money should property correct to its mean values.

Then we'll see those with real skill and talent come to the fore.

Dan29

meanmachine wrote:

By the way, I should qualify my "impossible" statement. At today's prices it's virtually impossible, I'd argue.

So it's not "impossible", it's now "possible", i.e. the complete opposite of your original statement? Glad we cleared that up.

Of course yields matter, but to state that it's impossible to find a property in the UK where you can achieve a decent return is, as I said, rubbish.

BobProperty

Deemy wrote:

Let the lemmings pile into BTL, that is the purpose of having lastminute lemmings .... that tip the scales firmly in the other direction

I'm going to keep hold of that phrase and re-use it ("LL" Lastminute Lemming). Anyone recall the "post last minute lemmings" who bought BP shares (I think) after the market crashed?
I'll just add my opinion in here, BTL at present does not give a good enough return in the vast majority of cases. I wouldn't even consider anything less than 10% for a BTL, and I would normally want 15%. When you can get 5% putting the money in the bank (just read today that interest rates are now 5% on US gov stock), then why bother? And to whoever it was, stockmarket outperforms property long term. If you can predict when the cycles turn then you could make lots of money out of both, but don't say property is the best possible investment just because you bought some 5 years ago and it's gone up 100% since.
VI's like K&P need turnover actually, not increasing prices (unless they are bobbins at marketing their services) as they are property finders. It makes the job alot easier though if you can tell the punters buy now before the price goes up. The trouble with a recession is less people are willing to move, and less people are willing to spend money on services like theirs.

BobProperty

Dan29 wrote:

....Of course yields matter, but to state that it's impossible to find a property in the UK where you can achieve a decent return is, as I said, rubbish.

My post has just crossed with yours, so point me to a property which I can rent at >15% gross rent / purchase cost please. Or define "decent return" as I've just said what mine is.

Dan29

That's subjective, although if I found somewhere where I could get 15% I wouldn't be posting details on here

I'm defining "make money" as in the original comment "impossible to make money" as anything over 0%, i.e. the dividing line between making money and not making money.

F_T_Buyer

Deemy wrote:

You want to see something funny

Download this vid, then just past half way through Kirsty comes on and has a fit about people trying to talk the housing market down on ITV news

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/media/LondonTonight-1.wmv

I think the pair believe thier BS and are loaded up to the eyeballs in BTL debt !

Watch the video and don't tell me that she is not a nutter ! This is what happens when she does not have a script infront of her to follow ! What a nutter ! I bet her bald boyfriend is just as mad !

Doing all these property shows must have gone to her head, she's starting to think she's a bloomin house !

P.S.
The vids a bit sticky in the middle, just click past were it sticks to get it going again

I remember seeing that a while back, Kirtsy is such a hypocrite she acuses a website for talking down the market? Yet she talks up the market with her programs fronted by Channel4. I assume that website has press releases saying "houses are flying off the shelf" and "property prices in the west are winners"? Nope they don't. It's the only place to get behind the spin of the media - the problem is the forum moves too fast.

Tassotti wrote:

I say Sell to Rent now!!!

More tenants for me, more demand for rental properties, rental prices will increase and these STRs will never get back on the ladder.

The website mentioned has been going since about 2004, and everyone who STRd have lost money due to this ,believing a crash will happen, and guess what, prices still rising.

They should cut their losses and get back on the ladder now before its too late. :mad:

Have they lost money? Nope, you'll find most of the those who sold to rent did so to make better returns else where! The stock market has boomed since mid 2004, and commodities like Gold has shot up over the last 12 months.

I'm an FTB, can't afford to buy just like most my own age (25). I come on here to provide another point of view for those who think property is a one way bet... I started doing so when a few friends wanted debt advise, of which I found this forum. Hopefully many will benefit from my advise. K&P's property ramping does not help anyone buy themseleves!

meanmachine_2

Dan29 wrote:

That's subjective, although if I found somewhere where I could get 15% I wouldn't be posting details on here

I'm defining "make money" as in the original comment "impossible to make money" as anything over 0%, i.e. the dividing line between making money and not making money.

No, that's not my definition, thank you very much.

Mine would be anything above a no hassle no risk interest account, plus costs.

In other words anything above 8-ish%.

If K&P are able to find those in today's market, then they really will be worth their salary.

If they're relying on capital appreciation, then it's all smoke and mirrors - like so much TV.