Rail Travel: Tips on Cheap Tickets

Roland

dzug wrote: »

But rule 19b (train stops at the station where the tickets 'join') allows it regardless of season tickets, zonal tickets, ordinary tickets, or whatever)

and given that there are next to no trains from Cuffley that don't call at Winchmore Hill it sounds a reasonable bet for OP as long as she remembers that rule.

I think that you might be right. Rule 19b does not exclude Season or Zonal tickets. As in many other cases, you have to be able to unravel the knot of strings attached just to be able to save some cash.

This is rule 19 in full.

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover
the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one ticket to
another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season
Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the
trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).
If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the
train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either
to the entire journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at
least one of the tickets was valid.
For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey
ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days

and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and BritRail passes.

ticketcollector

As I said in post 855 above rule 19b would apply!

I am yet to find a train from Cuffley which doesnt stop at winchmore hill (obviously in that direction before someone gets smart!!!!!! :-) )


Roland
Not having been trained in PTE cards, we dont have any PTEs down here (the only similar would be Transport for London) I would guess you could use a Travel South Yorkshire pass and a Metro card (West Yorks PTE) on the same train.

rosebyanyothername

hi thanks to your help I saved pounds at christmas on trip to Brum. Can I also ask your advice on a trip I do to visit my dad. I usually go via birmingham but if there is a cheaper option am willing to do it. I usually change birmingham and milton keynes. I will be going with out kids so cannot use family railcard. How many splits should I do to get cheapest ticket from bristol temple meads to leighton? I will be staying two days. Thanks

max_l

SVR Bristol TM - Cheltenham Spa £13.50
SVR Cheltenham Spa - Birmingham NS £17.50
SVR Birmingham NS - Leighton Buzzard LONDON MIDLAND ONLY £14.30

TOTAL = £45.30

A £10 saving over the normal saver price! However, you MUST travel on London Midland between Birmingham New Street and Leighton Buzzard. Otherwise the ticket is void. It's barely any slower though, and there are in fact some direct services from Birmingham on London Midland.

Alternatively, depending on when you want to travel, there are a range of advance purchase tickets available, starting at £11 via Birmingham or £13 via London. See https://www.nxeastcoast.com and use the booking engine on the left (much clearer than thetrainline's booking system and no booking fee!).

terryw

The booking call centre for the National Express East Line (previously Gner) is in Newcastle upon Tyne. Staff are entitled to a massive 40% discount on "family and friends" tickets. If you live in the NE, ask around and make a new friend!

terryw

Taffyscot

HI all, Can anyone tell me the cheapest way to get from Largs to Edinburgh on this Thursday? My son and his wife are over from Canada so there would be 4 of us. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Taffy

newfoundglory

ticketcollector wrote: »

Emma I would be carefull over what your doing, its is known about and if FCC wanted to get picky they could actually prosucute you for breaking the NCoC.

Hmmm, prosecution over a civil contract is not very likely IMHO...

That would be a bit like a threat of prosecution for not paying a civil debt such as a penalty fare (ie. demanding money with menaces, which let me think actually IS a criminal offence unlike everything else mentioned here)

I should also point out that, on the subject of contracts - the regulations say that a consumer is not bound by a standard term in a contact with a seller or supplier if the term is unfair (such that it tips the contract in favor of the business). Also, a term can be considered unfair if it takes away the basic Sale of Goods Act rights. What is unreasonable is however for a court to decide. Section 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is also very interesting:

5. Unfair Terms

(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

(3) Notwithstanding that a specific term or certain aspects of it in a contract has been individually negotiated, these Regulations shall apply to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of it indicates that it is a pre-formulated standard contract.

(4) It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was.

ticketcollector

newfoundglory wrote: »

Hmmm, prosecution over a civil contract is not very likely IMHO...

That would be a bit like a threat of prosecution for not paying a civil debt such as a penalty fare (ie. demanding money with menaces, which let me think actually IS a criminal offence unlike everything else mentioned here)

They do prosucute over unpaid Penalty Fares. I belive they use The Regulation of the Railways Act 1889.

newfoundglory

If someone is prosecuted under the 1889 Act i would think its probably because they didn't have a ticket or were a fare evader. I do not condone fare evasion, and of course fare evaders should be prosecuted and fined. My point before was that the issuing of a penalty fare doesn't have to imply that an offence has been comitted.

For example, i'm aware that Penalty fares are often issued for not following ticketing rules (breaching Conditions of Carriage for example). I'm not going to comment on whether thats right or wrong, or enforceable.

AFAIK, under the 1889 act, the prosecution has to show that the defendant had intended to avoid payment of the fare in order to secure a conviction.

I think it would be near impossible to show that there was avoidance of payment under Regulation of Railways Act 1889 where the customer had and produced two valid season tickets, joining at a station on-route, and covering their entire journey.

Lets assume that I have therefore purchased two of these season tickets, to save some money, and some hot revenue inspector catches me. He/she issues me with a penalty fare, even though I have a valid ticket(s) covering my entire journey. Whilst the liability of the penalty fare is debatable, I would suggest that no criminal offence has been commited. Therefore if prosecution is threatened in order to recover the penalty fare I think it would in fact be the revenue inspector and/or train operating company who commits the offence under Theft Act 1968.

Of course the train operating company could decide to sue their customer in the county court for breach of contract and have damages awarded if they managed to win.

If you are in contact with the revenue protection people i'd be very interested to know exactly how they intend to "enforce" that part of the conditions of carriage, unless i have clearly missed some very important part of the law.

ticketcollector

I would guess they have a way for everything otherwise what is the point in the NCoC if its not enforcable at law?
I am thinking contract law as you enter into a contract when you buy a ticket, same as you can 'do' the TOC for failing to get you to place B as they have a contract to get you there.

Maybe they would do you under Transport Act 1962 which gives them powers to set byelaws.

However I am not a lawyer.

FYI theRegulation of Railways Act 1889
5.
— (1) Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [level 1 on the standard scale] [level 2 on the standard scale]].
(2) If a passenger having failed either to produce, or if requested to deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or to pay his fare, refuses [or fails] on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, to give his name and address, any officer of the company may detain him until he can be conveniently brought before some justice or otherwise discharged by due course of law.
(3) If any person—
(a)
Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(b)
Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
(c)
Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [level 2 on the standard scale] [level 3 on the standard scale]], or, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, either to a fine not exceeding [level 2 on the standard scale] [level 3 on the standard scale]], or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding [51 weeks].
(4) The liability of an offender to punishment under this section shall not prejudice the recovery of any fare payable by him.
[(5) In this section—
(a)
“railway company” includes an operator of a train, and
(b)
“operator”, in relation to a train, means the person having the management of that train for the time being.]