My solar PV first year payback calculation

daytona600_2

germany started in 1999 with the 100,000 roof project
with grants and feed in tarriffs

they now have millions of them

and have created a manufacturing industry that employs 575,000 skiiled people generates over 4.5billiions euros per annum

* people under 25 might not know what a global leader
in manufacturing is - we spent all our money of the banking & service
industries

Cardew wrote: »

I believe you can only get the subsidies/FITs if you use an accredited installer! Which gives licence to kill!!!!

Without knowing the exact details I know that the incentives in Germany made solar PV attractive, and because the take up was high, I believe these subsidies are being reduced.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aNkjxKkZ0aUM

Having lived in Germany for some years, the 'Green Movement' is very active and is well represented their Parliament.

daytona600_2

you can do a diy installation for off grid with batteries
but for grid connected ( on grid system ) you will need a MCS certfied contractor
to the grid connection , grant application and FITfeed in tarrifs

thor wrote: »

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that solar pv take up was much greater in Germany. Does anyone know why? Maybe they have a system which can reduce payback times to make it more attractive?
Btw, what would be the most difficult task if you were to try diy a system?

thor

A heads up for those following this thread. Working Lunch are going to investigate the finances involved for home solar pv installations on Thurday. should prove very intresting considering this is exactly what has been discussed here.
They had a little piece about energy generated by water turbines today and concluded that it would make money as long as you have a stream running over steep hillsides. Some guy paid 25k for an installation but was getting back £900 PER MONTH! Now can anyone tell me that would not pay for itself in a handful of of years even taking into account compound interest, maintenence etc?

BFG_2

thor wrote: »

Some guy paid 25k for an installation but was getting back £900 PER MONTH! Now can anyone tell me that would not pay for itself in a handful of of years even taking into account compound interest, maintenence etc?

Slightly more than a couple of years..but deffo a better return than the solar scam.

Cardew

BFG wrote: »

Slightly more than a couple of years..but deffo a better return than the solar scam.

Just need the hill and the stream and I will get started!!

Much as I support your stance, I think it is unfair to call Solar PV a scam -it is not like Solar Hot water.

The new FITs and installation grant have made it a better proposition than it was, but IMO it is still not viable in financial terms at the prices presently charged for installing systems.

MGSteve

Well, I'm looking into this as well now.

Right, found someone on ebay that is selling 1Kw of panels for £3200. Obviosuly need to get someone to install them, but this is what i've worked out so far (feel free to pick holes in it!)

If I get a few extra panels, I can maximise the £2500 maximum grant from the government, this would result in 16 80w panels, costing £3680 (assuming I can talk him down to £230p/panel. He sells 2kw for £224 per panel, so there's obviously some margin there.

So, adding in £500 for installation (don't know how accurate that is, perhaps someone can indicate from their installation costs), taking out the grant, that leaves a net cost of £1680.

Thinking about it, £500 for installation costs may well be a bit low. Need to get a quote.

Going on what seems to be presented on the net, a good estimate for the annual production for this array would be around 1144kwh annually (works out at around 3kwh a day?)

With the Feed In Tariff @ 36.5p per kwh, that means I generate 89p per day from the generated electricity, which in turn equates to 321.93 a year. The payback time would then turn out to be just over 5 years.

Going off nPower's site, as long as the installation is made by April 2011, the tariff rate is fixed for 25 years. Any installations after that date are subject to lower tariffs.

The tariff levels set out above apply to systems installed before April 2011. Systems installed after this will be subjected to new lower tariff rates: The government proposes that the model incorporates annual ‘degression’ whereby the tariff level will reduce by a fixed percentage for systems installed in the future. Generators will continue to receive the same tariff rate for the 20 year period as they did upon installation.

Source: http://www.npower.com/web/feedintariffs/index.htm#___revealer_ident_2

I appreciate some questions need to be asked about the panels, i.e. how well they work in cloudy conditions etc..

But apart from a couple of assumptions, are there any massive holes in the plan there?

Obviously the massive clincher is made by FIT rates, 36.5p per kw/h makes a huge difference to the profitability, as do the cheaper panels.

I'm sure more expensive panels are a bit more efficient, plus you'd need less of them to generate the same power, but I'm not that bothered about the number of panels, its the amount I can generate for the £2500 grant limit!

Mankysteve

While i think you shoudl consider the money side of solar panel the main reason to fit them is to do a bit to help reduce a carbon fit print.

MGSteve

Well, that is a positive, but if it generates a nice bit of an income as well, its all good. But the Government needs to set up a system like this for people to take up microgeneration in any sizable way. There are only so many that will not be worried about the ROI and will just do it because its the right thing to do.

I want to do it because its the right thing, but I also want to make sure it pays for itself.

Mankysteve

I would agree

Cardew

MGSteve wrote: »

But apart from a couple of assumptions, are there any massive holes in the plan there?

To get the Grant and FIT I believe you need a government approved installer(MCS)

Would you get one to assist your DIY scheme? I doubt it! They will not want to kill their 'Golden Goose'.

Even if you supply your own panels I doubt if you will get them installed with all the electronics for less than a cost of £6000(plus the cost of the panels)