My solar PV first year payback calculation

Shackeng

One thing I have not seen mentioned, is Russia's intention to set up a gas consortium, similar to OPEC. I have no doubt this will happen, and one can then imagine the effect on world gas prices, and the knock-on effect on electricity. Personally, I think this adds to the attractiveness of the PV option. However, I do think that the installers are ramping up prices subsequent to April 1st FIT's, and am waiting for prices to level off somewhat before taking the plunge. Two quotes so far of 1): 16 X 210w polycrystalline panels producing 3350KW PA, cost £16700. 2): 8 X 230W panels producing 1800KW PA for £12500.

Franzvonrintelen

The reason why it is a good idea to invest in solar PV and solar hot water heating is that they will save you money over the longer term and generate an income. That's got to be a good thing.

The Systems start from £3500 roughly for solar themal, and £7000 for solar PV. The larger the PV system, the shorter the payback time in general. Also if you live in the south you get longer days, thus more sunshine, so better returns. The tariff goes up by inflation (2.4% or more) and the electricity prices could rise by 5% or even 11% depending on what happens globally.

Also when calculating these you should take into consideration the fact that the value of money declines as time goes on. This is not done by anyone on internet. (It is known as net present value in financial circles.)

I rang one company up and someone did discuss it with me, very kindly. They also provided me with some very good information on how ofgem had worked out that electricity prices might rise by 5% for example. It's due to oil shortages and Russia threatening to use new pipelines being built into China. China might play hardball, but unlikely if its getting cheap gas. Gas is usually used to crack oil, but if oil becomes uneconomic to obtain, then you use gas instead of oil for industry. The next issue then I realised would be that shipping costs would rise. So the oil fired ships that bring LNG from South America to England would be affected. This supply might lower, and then even gas prices will start to shoot up.

This is why major retailers and someone called GREEN Project (heat project) - the mains ones I've seen and been advertised where I and my son live - are clearly on a winner even with solar thermal. It makes sense, long term. Also thermal technologies will receive the Renewable heat incentive. If you do both PV and solar thermal then that's a really good idea.

However, one caveat. Get your insulation sorted out before hand. You'll need this to claim the low carbon buildings programme grant for solar thermal. They don't give a grant for PV, but you insulation is the cheapest way to save energy by far.

If you want to cut carbon emissions - most people give out 10 - 20 tonnes of the stuff per annum - stop driving as much if possible.

In my father country, we have much better ways to encourage people to obtain free solar energy...Pity the British cannot werk it out.

Oopsadaisy

Solar energy firm SPWEC has been shut down in the High Court.
The Rochdale firm - its initials stand for Solar Power Wind Energy Company - used a string of nasty tactics to snare customers, including:
*Lying about the availability of government grants;
*Getting payments from customers for goods it had not yet sourced, meaning that it could not honour agreements;
*Failing to respond to customer complaints, give refunds or even honour its own terms and conditions;
*Taking unathorised payments from customer credit cards.
The firm was shut down following an investigation by the Insolvency Service. Spokesman Alex Deane said: "At a time when we are all looking for greener energy products, it is particularly regrettable that a business like SPWEC should use dishonest practices to exploit that demand for its own ends."
The directors of the firm, none of whom served for more than a few months, were Lee Cooper, 24, of Bury, John Hallises, 33, of Rochdale, and Kevin Parr, 27, also Rochdale.

tabath

Franzvonrintelen wrote: »

The reason why it is a good idea to invest in solar PV and solar hot water heating is that they will save you money over the longer term and generate an income. That's got to be a good thing.

The Systems start from £3500 roughly for solar themal, and £7000 for solar PV. The larger the PV system, the shorter the payback time in general. Also if you live in the south you get longer days, thus more sunshine, so better returns. The tariff goes up by inflation (2.4% or more) and the electricity prices could rise by 5% or even 11% depending on what happens globally.

Also when calculating these you should take into consideration the fact that the value of money declines as time goes on. This is not done by anyone on internet. (It is known as net present value in financial circles.)

I rang one company up and someone did discuss it with me, very kindly. They also provided me with some very good information on how ofgem had worked out that electricity prices might rise by 5% for example. It's due to oil shortages and Russia threatening to use new pipelines being built into China. China might play hardball, but unlikely if its getting cheap gas. Gas is usually used to crack oil, but if oil becomes uneconomic to obtain, then you use gas instead of oil for industry. The next issue then I realised would be that shipping costs would rise. So the oil fired ships that bring LNG from South America to England would be affected. This supply might lower, and then even gas prices will start to shoot up.

This is why major retailers and someone called GREEN Project (heat project) - the mains ones I've seen and been advertised where I and my son live - are clearly on a winner even with solar thermal. It makes sense, long term. Also thermal technologies will receive the Renewable heat incentive. If you do both PV and solar thermal then that's a really good idea.

However, one caveat. Get your insulation sorted out before hand. You'll need this to claim the low carbon buildings programme grant for solar thermal. They don't give a grant for PV, but you insulation is the cheapest way to save energy by far.

If you want to cut carbon emissions - most people give out 10 - 20 tonnes of the stuff per annum - stop driving as much if possible.

In my father country, we have much better ways to encourage people to obtain free solar energy...Pity the British cannot werk it out.

I ASSume this guy is joking

John_Pierpoint

Which bit is funny?

Mcfi5dhc

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

Update for all - I've had my Import/Export meter fitted today. Took about half an hour and replaces my old dial meter. Its much smaller than the old one, not really had a decent look at it yet.

Hello

Update for all

Decided to check the panels, cables, invertor, reading etc today for the first time in ages.

Have three marks on the panels which look like bird poo, considering it hasn't rained for weeks, hardly surprising - everything else ticking over nicely.

In the 12 months rolling period, I have generated 1241 units (on a 1.44 kwp system), 10% more than the installers predicted

Since having an export meter fitted on 14th September 09, I have generated 909 units, 443 of which have been exported (48.7%) - this figure is likely to rise slightly over the next few weeks as we are generating so much more than we need at the the moment. For those electric companies offering to guestimate it at 50% rather than fitting an export meter, they know their stuff!

The last few weeks have been brilliant on the panels, but this will obviously be averaged out over the years by the odd crappy summer.

As far as payback, well probably not so good. Haven't actualy claimed any money back (in over a year) from SSE, so I am hoping its building up. My Direct Debit is £20, and I am in credit, so at least we are comfortable with bills. Payback period impossible to work out for now (until FIT for pioneers sorted, or I switch to Good Energy) - if nothing changes, maybe 20 years at a guess, probably more.

Doc_N

This of any use to anyone? It's a pretty good calculator (you can set your own parameters) which will help you decide on the economics of solar panels:

http://www.reuk.co.uk/REUK-Feed-In-Tariff-Calculator.htm

Cardew

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

In the 12 months rolling period, I have generated 1241 units (on a 1.44 kwp system), 10% more than the installers predicted

Since having an export meter fitted on 14th September 09, I have generated 909 units, 443 of which have been exported (48.7%) - this figure is likely to rise slightly over the next few weeks as we are generating so much more than we need at the the moment. For those electric companies offering to guestimate it at 50% rather than fitting an export meter, they know their stuff!

.

Thanks for the update.

Interesting that you can 'only' use 51% of the output of a smallish system. Is anyone at home during the day?

I wonder what percentage you(and others) would be able to use if you had an installation producing 2 or 3 times as much power.(2,500kWh to 3,700kWh).

Mcfi5dhc

Cardew wrote: »

Thanks for the update.

Interesting that you can 'only' use 51% of the output of a smallish system. Is anyone at home during the day?

I wonder what percentage you(and others) would be able to use if you had an installation producing 2 or 3 times as much power.(2,500kWh to 3,700kWh).

Hello

The wife doesn't work, so she is in a lot of the time in the day. We have 2 toddlers as well. Mashing machine, dishwasher etc are all on in daylight.

The only electric task we do at night that could reasonably be shifted to the daytime is ironing, but we choose not to cos of the danger of kids running about and tripping on the wires etc (we do team ironing at night though, 2 boards, 2 irons and generally 2 large drinks!)

Back to your point though, if we had a bigger system, we are still going to use roughly the same amount of power in the daytime, so our export amount would rise dramatically. For a 3.700kwp system, we would probably export around 85% (back of a fag packet calcs)

Here is my calc, based on for example "A Shade Greener" set up:
3.7kwp system
12 month generated units = 3200 (North Wales)
I would use 466 units still
I would export 2734
I could estimate 50% of my production and get 3p a unit on this, and get £48
Or, I could use the calcs above and get £82

John_Pierpoint

How do you heat your water?
( I have sort of searched to see if you answered this question further back:o)

Was it this thread that discussed a gizmo that could turn on something else, such as an immersion heater or a freezer, as the voltage started to rise above the mains, to prevent the export of electricity (worth only 3p a unit) and make sure it is used for something useful on site?

Were you one of the lucky early adopters who qualified for the FiT last April?

Good luck,

John.