My solar PV first year payback calculation

stevehead

BFG wrote: »

Wow, so is solar now a cost effective thing to do??

I ask because I was under the impression it's not a sensible investment at the moment.

From an investment point of view, my fear is that now we are on the cusp of dirt cheap mass produced PV. Specifically, the thin film newspaper-printing type of production method which uses much less raw materials and scales well.
http://www.nanosolar.com/company/blog#66
When it's made (and the film shows it being made, not Internet guff) this way, surely costs will plummit?

Cardew

stevehead wrote: »

From an investment point of view, my fear is that now we are on the cusp of dirt cheap mass produced PV. Specifically, the thin film newspaper-printing type of production method which uses much less raw materials and scales well.
http://www.nanosolar.com/company/blog#66
When it's made (and the film shows it being made, not Internet guff) this way, surely costs will plummit?

There has been much talk in the USA about the aim of producing solar PV at a cost of 1US$ per Watt. So your 2.2kW array would cost under £2,000.(for the panels)

The 2 factors that concern me are firstly that Government grants and subsidies will only be available if the system is installed by accredited firms.

Well that is normally a 'licence to kill' for the firms lucky enough to get that status. The solar industry in particular has become a byword for sharp practice as every Trading Standards officer will testify; and I can't see the cowboys being rooted out.

Secondly, I would be very pessimistic about the Government funding the proposed generous FITs. There might be a brief window of opportunity but I doubt they will continue at that level for new users.

popmitz

Cathy - did anyone at the conference make clear whether people who instal now and get the £2500 grant will still get the 36p FIT. There was a letter in the Telegraph the other day stating that only properties who instal pv after 1st April 2010 will get the increase. It says that anyone who instals before then will only get about 10p as they do now.
We are seriously considering having the panels but are getting lots of conflicting advice from salespeople.

Cardew

popmitz wrote: »

Cathy - did anyone at the conference make clear whether people who instal now and get the £2500 grant will still get the 36p FIT. There was a letter in the Telegraph the other day stating that only properties who instal pv after 1st April 2010 will get the increase. It says that anyone who instals before then will only get about 10p as they do now.
We are seriously considering having the panels but are getting lots of conflicting advice from salespeople.

This is what Cathy - who is the really clued up poster on future developments - posted earier in this thread(in reply to someone who has solar PV:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm afraid you won't get 36.5p per unit from the feed-in tariff. Tucked at the bottom of the rates table is the dismal news that existing generators - ie those who installed solar panels or micro wind before the consultation was announced on 15 July 09 - will get just 9p per kWh generated, plus there will be a flat rate of an additional 5p for each kWh exported whoever your supplier. This will extend payback time for some people - depending on which energy supplier they currently use.

This is made even worse by the news that people who install between 15/7/09 and April 2010 will get the full rates (up to 36.5p for solar; 30.5p for wind) AND a grant.

The small chink of light in all this is that these proposals are still under consultation. So if, like me, you think this is a really shabby deal, there's time to respond. I've launched a campaign page to help raise awareness among people who might be affected, and make it easy to respond at the YouGen website. The closing date for responses is 15 October 2009. Please tell people you know that might be affected.

However, as I understand it nothing is yet confirmed re FITs, grants etc, they are still proposals.

Cardew

CathyDebenham wrote: »

The small chink of light in all this is that these proposals are still under consultation. So if, like me, you think this is a really shabby deal, there's time to respond. I've launched a campaign page to help raise awareness among people who might be affected, and make it easy to respond at the YouGen website. The closing date for responses is 15 October 2009. Please tell people you know that might be affected.

This is the link.

http://www.yougen.co.uk/equal/

plimsoll

karie wrote: »

A couple of points with regard to the feed-in tariff:

- yes it will replace ROCs for installations under 5MW (household solar is well under this threshold)
- the rate is 'grandfathered' - this means that your 36.5p from april 2010 is guaranteed for 25 years. however rates will decrease over time, so if you installed solar PV in 2015, for example, the rate you receive will be 36.5p - x% (dont have the info to hand), and this too will be 'grandfathered', i.e. fixed
- i have a feeling that there is some clause which states that if you receive an LCBP grant for £2.5k between now and april 2010 you are not eligible for the feed-in tariff/ have to pay the grant back/ something like that - i'd have to check the details to confirm. this does not apply to existing installations

hope that helps

haven't read through whole thread to know if anyone has already said this, but according to the green pages of my local paper a couple of weeks ago, you can claim the full £2500 (in England...) then the FITs as well

and just editing to say that having posted realised the posts at the end did already say this lol!!!

albyota

you will find this whole thread very interesting plimmy

And decision day is

The Government is welcoming ideas on its renewable energy strategy until October 15th 2009.

http://www.yougen.co.uk/equal/#sign

Cardew

albyota wrote: »

you will find this whole thread very interesting plimmy

And decision day is

The Government is welcoming ideas on its renewable energy strategy until October 15th 2009.

http://www.yougen.co.uk/equal/#sign

Whilst I can understand the frustration(jealousy?) of those who have already installed alternative energy, I do find their arguments for even larger subsidies disingenuous.

People fitted solar/wind generation after considering the merits of the various systems; and for their own motives, either financial or ‘Green’. It was their choice and many got grants toward the installation.

They now find that they are ‘only’ going to get a bonus of 9p/kWh paid for by the taxpayer; and are complaining!!

Personally I think that any subsidy, let alone 9p/kWh, for already installed systems is difficult to justify.

If it considered fair that the government should apply that principle; why don’t they apply it retrospectively to those who bought a car just before the scrappage scheme was announced, a house before the cut in Stamp Duty was announced. I bought an expensive new car just before VAT was reduced to 15%. etc etc.

I also believe that for the taxpayer, in these times of financial difficulty, to give people a £2,500 grant and then to be paying them 36p/kWh subsidy is madness. Such huge sums could be far better utilized in producing alternative energy on a commercial scale.

albyota

is it tax payers money.....or is it landfill tax that is paying for the feed in tariffs?

Cardew

albyota wrote: »

is it tax payers money.....or is it landfill tax that is paying for the feed in tariffs?

IMO Tax is Tax, and a subsidy is a subsidy!

The RFL/VED(Road Fund Licence - now car tax) was originally intended to fund road building, but the Government have long since given up any pretence there is any connection.

The government raise income - through various forms of taxation and have expenditure - which includes FITs.

Even if the excuse for landfill tax was to susidise wind/solar - it would make far more sense to spend that tax on commercial large scale wind/solar generators.