Can I sue Hertz?

jammin_2

So I booked a hire car for one day in January 2010, on the Hertz website. Paid for it online, came to £19.57. A week or so later, turns out I won't be needing the car in January after all, so I went back on the Hertz website and cancelled the reservation.

..But I didn't received a refund. Hertz say in their Ts & Cs that they'll only refund minus a £30 admin fee. I think this is unfair.

I contacted Hertz by email, and anyway they were adamant that they weren't going to refund my £19.57.

Last email I sent to them was this:

FINAL LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Hertz,

Please send me documentary evidence of the financial loss which you have incurred, in respect of my cancellation of reservation number E0123456789, which causes you to believe that you have grounds to withhold GBP19.57 from me.

Failure to supply sufficient evidence will result in legal action being taken through the courts.


Regards,
<jammin>.

To which Hertz replied..:

[FONT=&quot]Reference Number: 01234567 23/07/09[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dear <jammin>, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the time of placing your booking you were asked to tick a box next to the following statement, "I Agree to the terms and conditions and I acknowledge that this is a prepaid rate". In ticking this box you acknowledged your understanding and agreement to our rental terms, within which is included information on the cancellation fee.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Below I have pasted an extract from our terms and conditions. This extract confirms the existence of a cancellation fee and explains the conditions under which this will be applied.[/FONT]

1. Hertz allows you to cancel a prepaid reservation:

a. online by the 'Modify/Cancel' reservation page
b. by calling the Internet Helpdesk

2. A full refund of the prepaid reservation will be made:
[FONT=&quot]
a. If the cancellation is made within 7 days of the original booking time;
b. Less an administrative fee of EUR 45.00, GBP 30.00, CHF 65.00, SEK 300.00, NOK 300.00, ZAR 450.00, DKK 300.00 if the cancellation is made after 7 days of the original booking time

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You gave your full consent for this cancellation fee to be applied to your booking after a period of 7 days from the booking date. We have not therefore violated the terms under which your reservation was made and are not obliged to provide evidence of our losses.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be of assistance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yours sincerely,[/FONT]

<name removed>

[FONT=&quot]Hertz Customer Services[/FONT]
https://www.hertz.com

So, clearly, Hertz are saying that it's in their Ts & Cs so tough titties.

My question is - is it lawful or unlawful for them to withhold my money, bearing in mind that they have incurred no financial loss in my cancelling a reservation due to take place in January 2010?

Finally, if it is unlawful, can I use moneyclaim.gov.uk to get my money back?

mad_rich

Short answer: lawful.

Which bit of the terms and conditions did you not understand?

Despite it being a (probably cheaper) prepaid rate, Hertz allows you to cancel without penalty within 7 days, and for a £30 charge at any time after that. I have to say that that is a pretty generous policy, and one which I have taken advantage of several times. What more do you want? Blood?

I'm not sure where you went to law school, but why do you think Hertz has to show you 'documentary evidence of financial loss'? They don't. They're just, very reasonably, sticking to their very reasonable T&Cs.

You agreed to the T&C's and now you don't like them, so you want to sue Hertz. Good luck with that....

jammin_2

mad_rich wrote: »

Short answer: lawful.

Which bit of the terms and conditions did you not understand?

I understand it fully. My question was is it lawful or unlawful.

mad_rich wrote: »

Despite it being a (probably cheaper) prepaid rate, Hertz allows you to cancel without penalty within 7 days, and for a £30 charge at any time after that. I have to say that that is a pretty generous policy, and one which I have taken advantage of several times. What more do you want? Blood?

Well, I disagree. I think a £30 charge to cancel this far in advance, when no loss nor inconvenience to the company has been caused, is very much inflated. Reminds me of bank charges - maybe £30 is the magic number?

mad_rich wrote: »

I'm not sure where you went to law school
<snip>

If I went to law school, would I be asking this question on an internet forum?

mad_rich wrote: »

You agreed to the T&C's and now you don't like them, so you want to sue Hertz. Good luck with that....

Yeah - sarcasm noted, cheers.

In case you didn't know, contracts, term and conditions are not binding if they are unlawful. I came on here to ask the opinion of others, whether this £30 charge is lawful or not - because I genuinely didn't know. If the general consensus is that it is lawful, then I'll forget all about it.

I appreciate your reply mad_rich, but you could have just left it with the first line.

Meepster

mad_rich wrote: »

Short answer: lawful.

Which bit of the terms and conditions did you not understand?

Despite it being a (probably cheaper) prepaid rate, Hertz allows you to cancel without penalty within 7 days, and for a £30 charge at any time after that. I have to say that that is a pretty generous policy, and one which I have taken advantage of several times. What more do you want? Blood?

I'm not sure where you went to law school, but why do you think Hertz has to show you 'documentary evidence of financial loss'? They don't. They're just, very reasonably, sticking to their very reasonable T&Cs.

You agreed to the T&C's and now you don't like them, so you want to sue Hertz. Good luck with that....

One of the best and most concise posts I've seen in a long while, couldn't have put it better myself.. :T

Pollycat

I too think mad_rich has put things well.

In the title of the post, jammin asks the question:
"Can I sue Hertz?"

I guess the answer is "Yes, of course you can".

But I suspect the question you really should have asked is:
"Do I stand a cat in hell's chance of winning if I sued Hertz?"

I think the probable answer to that is "you accepted the T&Cs so you'll probably get nowhere with it - except spend more dosh than you've lost by cancelling.
Which is £19.57. :rolleyes:
I think you should put this into perspective - and cut your losses instead of considering instituting legal proceedings against Hertz.

jammin_2

Thanks Pollycat. Indeed, if the charge is lawful, I haven't got a cat in hells chance.

Anyway, my thinking was, bank charges are also listed clearly in their Ts & Cs, but they are unlawful since they are disproportionate to the actual costs incurred by the bank, and so unenforceable.

So those were the lines I was thinking down, you know..

But anyway, if everyone's opinion is that the Hertz charge is lawful then I'll knock it on the head so..

PS - you're right - I should have titled the thread "Should I bother to..", rather than "Can I..".

Moonchild

Also in regards to 'financial loss', well they have made a financial loss in every minute they have been dealing with you. If they refund you they would take more of their time. And they have to pay staff. In fact your letter probably took someone a good 30 minutes to cut and paste.

IMO you've already more than £20 worth time out of Hertz. Move on for your own sanity.

MarkyMarkD

The bank charges case has still not been decided, so it's rather presumptuous to state that bank charges are unlawful since they are disproportionate to the actual costs incurred.

I don't think the parallel applies either. You gained a substantial discount by booking on a prepaid basis, and hence there is an adminstration charge for cancelling. That is not unreasonable.

And Hertz's losses aren't nothing as claimed. They have lost the opportunity to sell that car for that day. They may well have turned away other customers who would have hired it.

dmg24

jammin wrote: »

In case you didn't know, contracts, term and conditions are not binding if they are unlawful. I came on here to ask the opinion of others, whether this £30 charge is lawful or not - because I genuinely didn't know. If the general consensus is that it is lawful, then I'll forget all about it.

Why did you willingly enter into a contract that you believed to have unlawful terms?

MarkyMarkD

The bank charges case has still not been decided, so it's rather presumptuous to state that bank charges are unlawful since they are disproportionate to the actual costs incurred.

I don't think the parallel applies either. You gained a substantial discount by booking on a prepaid basis, and hence there is an adminstration charge for cancelling. That is not unreasonable.

And Hertz's losses aren't nothing as claimed. They have lost the opportunity to sell that car for that day. They may well have turned away other customers who would have hired it.

jammin_2

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I didn't know actually, that the bank charges case has still not been decided yet. I thought there was a test case won? Anyway, I'll google that so.

Just to say as well, the difference in price between paying online and paying later was about £1 or something iirc. Not a great discount like some may think.

I agree, Hertz have had to pay staff who have responded to my emails, so yes - it's correct that they have incurred some cost, that can't be denied.

They haven't lost the opportunity to sell that car for that day though, it's back available now so they can sell it and get my money and the new customer's money. Plus, they've plenty of time to do so between now and next Jan.

So all things considered, I think Hertz have done very well out of my cancelling the reservation.