Have your say on the Big Care Debate

BernardM

In Britain there are 12 million pensioners, many growing old in poverty, unable to buy sufficient food or heat for their homes. Pensioners today are worse off in real terms than they were prior to 1997.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8169859.stm

To add insult to injury really, the Government and local authorities 'steal' the savings, assets and homes of pensioners who have to face long-term hospitalisation or who go into care. We should stop this outrage; to take someone's home, their savings and assets simply because they have to go into care is theft, and tramples on the rights of people who during their working lives have already paid for their own health and welfare care.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/britain/poor_deal_for_british_pensioners

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/comment/it_s_not_only_about_existing

missychrissy

There is no easy solution to this problem. I used to be the manager of a nursing home and saw at first hand people that had worked hard all of their lives paying for their care whilst others who had never saved or worked were provided with care for free. This does seem so unfair. In addition the care is often only very basic. I now work for an agency, mainly in nursing homes, and find that the care varies. These nursing homes are businesses and as such intent on making a profit. They usually run with as few staff as possible (the minimum laid down by CSCI) and are often short staffed. It is often not possible to replace staff that ring in sick at short notice and recruitment and retaining staff can be very difficult. Managers and staff often have great difficulty in persuading owners of these homes to spend money. People and their relatives paying for their care (it is not cheap), are often frustrated with the staff especially if they have to wait for anything to be done and staff can be overworked and frazzled trying to get all the work done. A lot of these nursing homes are not places any of us would choose to live in but sometimes it cannot be helped. My own mother has dementia and is kept organised and prompted by my 85 year old father. I don't know how he does it. My mother was an intelligent human being who would never have wished to go into a nursing home but if anything happens to my father she will not be able to cope alone. I live about 140 miles away and my only brother lives abroad so what choice do we have? I know she will hate it. I have to work (mortgage to pay etc). I hope Ceridwen stays healthy enough to stay in her own home but I know that this is not always possible. I read somewhere that only 6 per cent of people need nursing home care so I am hopeful that I will be one of the majority.
I can see that the care sector needs huge investment in order to provide care of a high standard for our increasingly ageing population but where does that money come from?

BernardM

It will cost £60 billion to replace and run the Trident missile system for the next 20 years.

Wars without end will cost £3 billion each year.

Billions in the bail-outs of banks that then direct the cash straight into their own funds without so much as a by-your-leave.

By comparison, the care of the elderly is, as London Mayor Boris Johnson said of his £250,000 a year second job, chicken feed.

Telluwot

Heartily agree with many of comments here. As do all hard working people. Esp re the thousands who've no intentions of working but reap benefits to the grave. I've no easy answers either but it's also fact that the elderly who are financially abused are often done so by family and friends they trusted.
My late Dad also swore he'd never go into a home but sadly spent his last 6 months in one. And was defrauded by an old 'friend' who had POA. None of us know how we'll end up. But indeed, until the government drastically cuts the welfare bills for work shy scroungers, hard working people will naturally resent paying into a system that rewards those who have never contributed yet been content to leave it to others.
My Dad and thousands like him for example, worked from age of 12 and a WW2 veteran. Paid his dues all his life. While I know people who've either never worked or not done for many years, but will be putting their hands out for pensions etc when the time comes.
The system is a mess and very unfair.

chriszzz

ceridwen wrote: »

My thought on this is that the goalposts seem to be shifting every time one takes a look:

- first: it was a certain amount of money (£12,000 I think?) and on a voluntary basis probably and only for one's own needs

- then it seemed to move onto a rather higher figure and paying into a communal fund and maybe it should be mandatory and maybe, even then, it wouldnt cover all the costs.

No easy answers as the phrase goes. I can only speak for my own viewpoint - which boils down to: I'm NOT handing over any of MY money to anything just IN CASE I ever had to go into a nursing home. What would be the point? - as I'm not going to go into a nursing home ever anyway.

I simply dont believe that most people would ever need to go into nursing homes - and, even for those that do, I believe many would choose not to do so. I'd honestly rather carry on in my own home totally regardless of my ability (or otherwise) to do so. I will never ever consider going into a nursing home - NO MATTER WHAT - so what would be the point of paying in case I did??? I wont - end of....It might mean I had struggled on to the extent that I fell downstairs and broke a leg or even my back or something - but that is MY choice...at least I would have stayed in my own home throughout.

I am simply NOT going to hand over MY money for other people to make the choice (however voluntarily or otherwise) to go into a nursing home. I would simply regard this as being just another tax.....ho hum....yawn....not AGAIN....
There does have to come a time when one calls a halt on JUST how much money can be taken out of the average low-paid person in the street as taxes to fund other peoples choices...

OMG this read was hilarious :T I have not laffed so much for ages, still laffing. I totally agree there no getting MY money either

interestseeker

All three alternative schemes put up by the Government for consultation reflect their financially niggardly financial approach to the care of the elderly. The shelved Sutherland Report majority finding in 2000 had the right idea, that all care should be free financed in exactly the same way as NHS care. The present distinction between free NHS care and means-tested so called social care is unjust, artificial, and wasteful. A unified system would release large sums of money absorbed by the staff and equipment needed to administer the means-test and free up these resources to improve the care at the sharp end. Historic Government claims that it is unaffordable are nonsense in the light of the sums wasted on failed IT projects, MP's expenses, the silly variety of politically correct initiatives and white elephants such as the Millennium Dome. I have seen the cost of the Dome and of free "social" care both put at £1bn.
Savers should in no way be penalised for their hard work in accruing their nesteggs on which they already pay tax on interest received. The lesser of the three evils would be to pay a lump sum or instalments which then entitle all care to be received absolutely free of further charge.:eek:

margaretclare

One of the reasons why DH and I are still saving is that we do not know what is ahead of us, round the corner. We are 2 highly-independent types, used to being capable, running our own lives and making own decisions. We are basically a pair of loners, who happen to get on very well indeed because we know and understand what each of us likes and expects.

We would certainly be prepared to pay for any 'help' to come in, rather than consider going into residential care. If possible we'd rather pay for that directly rather than paying Social Services for care through an agency.

Over the years we've spent a lot of time, money and effort in making this 1930s bungalow as modern, convenient, easy-care and manageable as possible. The most recent thing was last autumn when DH was so ill and was coming out of hospital with a stiff leg (he nearly lost that leg altogether!) and I got a local tradesman to install a bigger shower cubicle with a lower step-in than the one we had. We'd abandoned the bath years before in favour of a shower - it was just not practical and not safe.

I already pay for help in the garden and the windows cleaned. While DH was in hospital for the second time (to have knee joint reconstructed) I got a local company to come in and do a complete spring-clean right through. They took the curtains down for me, I washed them, they put them back up. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get the same people in maybe twice a year to have a good go-through. I'm quite happy to pay for services like that which make life easier and more comfortable for us.

One of the best decisions my late husband and I ever made was to move to this bungalow from a 3-storey Pennine cottage. He was having mini-strokes and needed somewhere flatter where he could walk, without stairs and a kinder climate!

I've often seen older people hanging on to what had been the family home, even though it had become completely impractical and unmanageable for them. Especially if one was left alone - stairs becoming unmanageable, not modernised, difficult to heat etc. 'Oh I can't sell it, it's for the children..' I've heard it.

If I was ever widowed for a second time I would sell up and move into sheltered accommodation. Where I go for a fitness class (yes, really!) the flats there are £90-£100K and they're very nice. No gardening, no windows to clean, and no memories!

Cacran

Thankyou Monkeyspanner. I will look into what you are saying. My mum is settled in the home she is in and I would not wish to unsettle her as it would cause her distress.

monkeyspanner

Cacran wrote: »

Thankyou Monkeyspanner. I will look into what you are saying. My mum is settled in the home she is in and I would not wish to unsettle her as it would cause her distress.

There should be no need to move your mum if found entitled to CHC as it is payable in any care setting and PCT should merely pick up the payments.

Former_MSE_Wendy

Hi all

The Department of Health has asked us to post this paragraph on what the care service looks like at the moment as there have been some questions about it in the thread. Hope it helps

"Means testing for social care is not new, the current funding system has
been largely the same since the creation of the NHS in 1948. At the moment,
people who face really high costs of care and support may have to use up
their savings and the values of their homes down to £23,000 before they get
any help from the State. The average cost of care a 65-year-old can expect
in their retirement is around £30,000. However, the costs are particularly
high if you need to move into a residential care home. For example, someone
with Alzheimer’s could have to pay over £200,000. The debate we need to
have is about what it is fair for everyone to pay, against the need to
protect some people against having to pay a huge cost."